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Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Community Veteran
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Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

The help page say that if you receive a wrongly identified email you should forward it as an attachment to either spam@spamtraining.plus.com or notspam@spamtraining.plus.com as appropriate.
Please could Plusnet tells whether this facility is working and confirm that emails forwarded in this manner are being sent to Cloudmark to improve the accuracy of the spam filtering.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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15 REPLIES
Community Gaffer
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

No, the emails are not being forwarded to Cloudmark at present and an overhaul of those support pages is due before too long. We wanted a feel for the various nuances of Cloudmark before making any significant changes though.
FWIW, using the spam/no spam reporting buttons on the new Webmail platform *will* result in the mail being forwarded to Cloudmark. For more details about how that works take a look here.
Webmail uses authentication against a user's account so that Cloudmark can track the report back to the sender. Due to this they're able to ascertain the reliability of a particular customer's reports. Those submitting 'healthy' false-positive/negative reports will benefit from a closer feedback loop and their submissions will be reacted to more efficiently. Those submitting unreliable reports won't have as much of an effect on how Cloudmark detect spam. It makes sense to do things this way to avoid 'poisining' the spam detection engine. Worth mentioning that the 'training' is across the board and there isn't a separate set of heuristics for each individual customer.
The fact that we need to use outbound authentication is one of the problems with the manual spam training addresses. Customers don't have to use authentication and where they don't it's difficult for Cloudmark to identify who's submitted a particular report.
We do need to decide what to do with the manual training addresses, whether that's to do away with them entirely or develop some mechanism of relaying the messages to Cloudmark that works for all parties involved.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
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Community Veteran
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Bob,
I asked this on the other topic:
How is someone who uses POP3 and doesn't have their client set to leave emails on the server supposed to use webmail to report wrongly identified emails?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Community Veteran
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Where is the notspam button in beta webmail? - dammed if I can see it.
I've just received an email wrongly identified as spam and I want to report it.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Community Veteran
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

I've now re-read the guides and found out where the not spam button should be - the button there is a spam button as shown in the attached screen shot.
Before anyone suggests that this message wasn't spam because it isn't tagged as such here's the headers:
Return-path: <4QSU3V-S3E6D6-N6LLP-KECC1UJ-S1CCCY-H-M2-20111208-cc560e420e26bd0@dellemea.bounce.ed10.net>
Envelope-to: xxx@yyy
Delivery-date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 10:49:24 +0000
Received: from [212.159.9.108] (helo=avasin14.plus.net)
  by inmx20.plus.net with esmtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id 1RYbXY-0000QV-3p
  for xxx@yyy; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 10:49:24 +0000
Received: from dellemea.outbound.ed10.com ([208.94.20.226])
by avasin14.plus.net with Plusnet Cloudmark Gateway
id 6apM1i0084sg7A801apPzq; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 10:49:24 +0000
X-BV-Spam-Flag: Yes
X-IPAS: Level1
X-CM-Score: 100.00
X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=C6trOHz+ c=1 sm=1 b=1 p=7nE0vFGrv_WBR5Cn:21
a=5qiGXmlq2EWDgc+6PHix/Q==:17 a=y2-Ey1w28Q4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10
a=4NiihNHWAAAA:8 a=iLNU1ar6AAAA:8 a=QdKRc8GWAAAA:8 a=3k78mgQRAAAA:8
a=SNlds4r4WDwx3a73-P8A:9 a=I8R79k_1Fn66zY5fC5cA:7 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10
a=tXsnliwV7b4A:10 a=fpWvtZ8f1WoA:10 a=kTLuzZ2chv4A:10 a=jRxgnXY_NugA:10
a=3Vtrhy1mme4A:10 a=MvPKzf2cp-sA:10 a=-XwJ49_kmwcA:10 a=fWjW_f6MvSAUd908:21
a=5qiGXmlq2EWDgc+6PHix/Q==:117
DomainKey-Signature: q=dns; a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;
s=ED2006-12; d=euro.dell.com;
h=Received:Date:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Message-Id:X-Mail-From:X-Match:X-RCPT-To:X-Mailer;
b=DMm7RgWa70K+dubbCgHVcdZL4ipHMWd5xrDDl51dHIiePq8Elrvu9+npug6YaIq9
KgQRBDyeo0EMhoQknWeGkqPH+m+b4mDeLAqyRHszqE41b8tLFbmKfgKM2VfuCv3+
Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([127.0.0.1:48765])
by bm1-18.bo3.e-dialog.com (envelope-from <4QSU3V-S3E6D6-N6LLP-KECC1UJ-S1CCCY-H-M2-20111208-cc560e420e26bd0@dellemea.bounce.ed10.net>)
(ecelerity 2.2.2.41 r(31179/31189)) with ECSTREAM
id BD/8C-12786-13690EE4; Thu, 08 Dec 2011 05:49:21 -0500
Date: Thu, 08 Dec 2011 05:49:21 -0500
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: "Dell Outlet UK - Home" <DellOutlet_UKHome@euro.dell.com>
Reply-To: "Dell Outlet UK - Home" <DellOutlet_UKHome.26SS45V.3047843@euro.dell.com>
To: xxx@yyy
Message-Id: <26113-79-4QSU3V-S3E6D6-N6LLP-KECC1UJ-S1CCCY-H-M2-20111208-cc560e420e26bd0@e-dialog.com>
X-Mail-From: 4QSU3V-S3E6D6-N6LLP-KECC1UJ-S1CCCY-H-M2-20111208-cc560e420e26bd0@dellemea.bounce.ed10.net
X-Match: dellemea.bounce.ed10.net
X-RCPT-To: xxx@yyy
X-Mailer: EDMAIL R6.00.02
X-pn-pstn: Spam 1
X-PN-Virus-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
X-PN-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
Subject: Gift Idea's for the Whole Family from Dell Outlet

I've also attached a copy of the relevant part of my spam settings.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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pierre_pierre
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

you only get the not spam is you leave the false positive in the spam box
Community Veteran
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

I haven't moved it! It's in the mailbox for spam emails for that domain as per my spam settings.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Superuser
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

If this is effectively your Junk folder for that mailbox does the button appear if you change the special folder associations in Personal Settings?
David
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

If you looked at the spam settings I attached to a previous message you'd see that this is a separate mailbox - it is therefore the main inbox on that mailbox.
Looking at the special folders settings the inbox doesn't appear in the dropdown - the only possible option would be to select "---" for Junk - is that what you mean?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

@spraxyt
Your post did give me an idea to try. I've copied the message in to the spam/junk folder and now the notspam button is available.
It appears that whether it shows the spam or notspam button depends on the current folder, not whether the headers for the currently selected email indicate whether it is spam.
This just makes the whole setup worse and even less well thought through. I'd guess that a lot of people have their settings to tag spam with [-SPAM-] and leave it in their inbox (for anyone who just uses a mail client and POP3 this is the only sensible setting - if emails are put in to the spam folder they won't be retrieved using POP3) - they are stuffed for reporting notspam unless they do as I have done and set leave on the server AND go through the steps I did to move the message to the spam folder before they can report it.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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ChrisL
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Yes jelv, this is exactly the position I'm in.
As I see it, I am unable to report a false-positive or -negative that has been retrieved using POP3. If I get one, I'm advised to select 'Leave a copy on the server' for a time, so that any future false emails from the same source can be found on Webmail and reported. Alternatively, everybody using POP3 should always leave copies of their messages on the server -- not something Plusnet would actually welcome, I bet!!
A rethink is needed.
Chris
Plusnet Alumni (retired) orbrey
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Hi ChrisL,
If you set your spam settings to leave all items marked as such in the spam folder, these won't get downloaded via pop3. That way all you need to do is log into webmail occasionally to check the folder contents.
Hope that helps.
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

Given the number of false positives I'm seeing it would not be log in to webmail occasionally, I'd recommend at least once every day.
Using the spam folder for people who use a mail client on their PC is only really practical if IMAP is used rather than POP3.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
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Superuser
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

As mentioned leaving a copy on the server for a few days is an option for those who use POP3. I wouldn't expect this to cause server storage problems.
If the mail client also supports IMAP, by setting up a separate IMAP account it is possible to copy POP3ed messages back to the server with headers intact (and place them in the spam folder if appropriate). In fact to cover false positives if the message is tagged and the client supports message rules this could probably be done automatically. However the approach mentioned in the first paragraph would seem simpler and also cover false negatives.
David
ChrisL
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Re: Is forwarding emails to spamtraining doing anything?

I have spam tagged and left in my inbox precisely so I can deal with it in my client. Actually, this is a bit academic at the moment, since it is several months since I had any spam, false or otherwise. I certainly won't be bothering with the webmail solution (and wouldn't be much use to Cloudmark if I did).
Chris