Aborted installatio

[#1]

Call me old fashioned but I kind of like the law. If I wanted to live in a country where only the ceo can get things done then I'd move to the US.

[#2]

@samjwardill There’s really no way forwards by shouting from a soapbox about “the law”. Contracts aren’t required to be symmetrical in all aspects in order to be fair and businesses are naturallyallowed to set their own conditions of supply to suit their particular business needs and constraints. 
In practice the OpenReach CEO’s office examine all kinds of unusual cases and look to see what’s practical within the economics of their business so as you’ve been advised that’d be a more productive route. You may be a borderline case which can only be accepted by a higher management.

[#3]

See https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f8b58ed915d74e33f716e/Unfair_Terms_Main_Guidance.p...  S 5.12.1 

contracts are required to be symmetrical in terms of right to cancel

[#4]

I don’t know where you’ve read contract law but that is subject to caveats inter alia the ability of the business to actually continue with the contract, as opposed to arbitrariness, which is the position you/PlusNet are in. If you want a broadband supply you’ve been advised of the most likely route to success.

[#5]

Further, in taking things to the “law” good faith comes into consideration, which is why I couched my first post in the manner I did.  Either you want to stand on your soapbox pontificating on your perception of the “law” or you want FTTP installing as requested.

Which is it?  If you want FTTP then contact Openreach’s CEO as advised.  If you want your view of the law upheld go consult a solicitor and appoint a barrister.  I hope you’ve got deep pockets.

Did you bother to look at Openreach’s ECC caveats?

[#6]

Following on from my aborted attempts with Plusnet, I raised a new order with BT (I realise they are the same company). Openreach are messing BT around too but I have (as recommended by posts on this forum) involved the Openreach Escalation team via the CEO email.

BT pointed out that Openreach are obliged to compensate me for the failure to complete the installation on the confirmed appointment date. I checked this out (here https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/service-quality/automatic-compensation-need-know) . Apparently Plusnet should have pursued Openreach for this compensation. Why did nobody on this forum tell me about this???

[#7]

@samjwardill  Because you were fixated on your interpretation of the law and didn't take the advice to contact the Openreach escalation team while your Plusnet order was in progress. Automatic compensation is only paid around 30 days after an ordered service becomes active. It now appears you have ordered from BT so the Plusnet order was cancelled and they have no obligation to provide any compensation. Why did you think ordering from BT would help?

[#8]

Ordering from BT has already helped because they made me aware of my right to compensation (where Plusnet failed to do this).

According to the Ofcom site:

"Compensation should be paid no later than:

• 30 calendar days after a delayed start of a new service is resolved or the service is cancelled;
• 30 calendar days after the loss of service is resolved or the service is terminated;
• 30 calendar days after the date of the missed appointment."

This is not dependent on the service becoming active. 

I only sought an interpretation of the law to get Plusnet to pursue Openreach because I thought it was ridiculous that Plusnet should seek to wash their hands of this responsibility and nobody made me aware of Plusnet's obligation to pursue Openreach for compensation under Ofcom rules!!

[#9]

FYI the Openreach escalation went nowhere. They just said "While we appreciate that this has been a frustration for you we are a business and in some cases it isn’t viable for us to provide a specific service to a specific location, in these cases orders can be cancelled and the properties removed from being able to order that service via our network, we’re a private business and not classed as a utility. This is something that while we try to avoid does in some cases happen. Should this be the case here we will let you know and advise you on any other options you may have at that point."

[#10]

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@samjwardill wrote:

"...we’re a private business and not classed as a utility."

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So now they're saying the quiet part out loud.

[#11]

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@samjwardill wrote:

Ordering from BT has already helped because they made me aware of my right to compensation (where Plusnet failed to do this).

According to the Ofcom site:

"Compensation should be paid no later than:

• 30 calendar days after a delayed start of a new service is resolved or the service is cancelled;
• 30 calendar days after the loss of service is resolved or the service is terminated;
• 30 calendar days after the date of the missed appointment."

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I assume that it is the first bullet point that you are using to justify compensation?

Looking at your first post:

I had a confirmed installation date for FTTP of 22nd December.

On 19th December I got a mail fropm them saying "This is to confirm that your previous order is cancelled due to appointment date was not received from your end".  

So the provision of the service was cancelled 3 days before it was due to be installed. So there was never an installed service to cancel.

Similarly, the appointment was cancelled giving 3 days notice, meaning there was no appointment to miss.

Can you help enlighten us by asking BT to explain why compensation was due and how much?

[#12]

Here is the full link https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-and-broadband/service-quality/automatic-compensation-need-know 

"As a landline or broadband customer, you would be entitled to compensation if…Your provider promises to start a new service on a particular date, but fails to do so."

There is detail of "When might a provider not pay automatic compensation under the scheme?" and this not include any provision for the provider to withdraw from the agreement having promised to start a new service on a particular date.

[#13]

Thanks for the link Agreed that this is not simple so it's a case of delving in to the referenced 'full code of practice'.

24. Compensation is not payable if the Communications Provider gives notice of a change or cancellation of the appointment at least 24 hours’ in advance of the original appointment

As 3 days notice was given, this is not applicable

32. If a customer or Communications Provider decides lawfully to terminate or cancel the service for which automatic compensation applies, then automatic compensation payments are only paid in line with this Code up until such termination.

Note the wording: ‘If a customer or Communications Provider decides lawfully to terminate or cancel the service for which automatic compensation applies’. It does not say: ‘Cancel the installation of a service for which automatic compensation applies’. The installation of the service was cancelled 3 days before the service was due to be installed, again, as I read it, it is not applicable.

[#14]

Section 24 only relates to Service issue 3. 

Service issue 1 specifically highlights the exclusions that are applicable to it and this does not include section 32. If 32 were applicable to Service issue 1 then Service issue 1  would be totally redundant.