Why does my invoice show: "This is not a VAT invoice" ?

[#1]

Quote from: birdbox

The Vat number is already shown, the Vat amount is already calculated - so why not leave it at that instead of adding as you do: This is not a VAT invoice  ?

The point is the VAT number is not shown, only VAT rate.
So as has been said already, why not just add VAT number and remove "This is not a VAT invoice" ?

[#2]

[Nick Russell] - of course you're right.
The Vat number is not shown.
It would only take that to be added and removing the disclaimer 'This is not a VAT invoice'
Then everyone would be happy. Similarly, BT do this same practise - is that why Plusnet does it too ?
It's just making unnecessary work for everyone
I'd like to think Plusnet - who extol the virtue of a Yorkshire based business - will apply common sense and get it sorted soon.

[#3]

HMRC's take on this here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/managing/charging/vat-invoices.htm

[#4]

[STRAT] thanks for link to HMRC requirements for VAT invoices.
It seems to me and others on this topic that Plusnet invoices could fall under the simplified vat receipts rules.
Taking the explanation directly from the HMRC site as follows:
Simplified VAT invoices
If you make retail sales and you make a sale of goods or services for £250 or less including VAT, then when a customer asks for a VAT invoice, you can issue a simplified VAT invoice that only needs to show:
   * the seller's name and address
   * the seller's VAT registration number
   * the time of supply (tax point)
   * a description of the goods or services
Whatever it is, Plusnet should be able to simplify their billing system to show what is required for us registered VAT members to properly reclaim the VAT paid.

[#5]

Quote from: birdbox

[Itsme] solution isn't on - it's a criminal offence to submit a forged vat invoice (even though his answer is common sense - the authorities have pursued these unfortunate individuals).

Not sure why you directed your reply to me as I did not suggest a solution, I only asked a question and pointed out that it's commonplace not to issue a VAT invoice. If you want a solution then transfer to a Business account.

[#6]

Sorry - Itsme - my comment related to -  ian007jen
One shouldn't need a Business account with Plusnet to receive a VAT invoice - whichever account one has - Residential or Business - we all pay the same VAT to Plusnet. We are moving to a paperless billing society and in the case of Plusnet, no bills are actually issued - only the ones we can download. One's not necessarily a business in the conventional sense to be VAT registered and in any case Plusnet has never suggested that this is a distinctive feature between the two accounts.
Our receipts each month never change, in the end all that is missing Plusnet's VAT number, without which it can't be a vat invoice - so what's stopping Plusnet from showing it ?
In conclusion, why mark invoices: "This is not a VAT Invoice" ?

[#7]

I think the non-VAT invoices were created when we made a distinction between the residential and business products. If you're on a residential account and want a VAT invoice, just raise a ticket and ask for them and we'll change it for you.

[#8]

Quote from: Chris

... just raise a ticket and ask for them and we'll change it for you.

We all know you can do this, but as has been said here already, why not simply add the VAT number and remove "This is not a VAT invoice" from all invoices?

[#9]

We'll certainly make that suggestion, however it needs to go through development and at the moment there are other items above it on the workstack.

[#10]

Dear Plusnet
The Law says that if you want to charge VAT as a business to anyone, you have to provide a VAT Invoice with your VAT Registered number on it. We are entitled to this in the same way as when we go to a filling station and buy petrol , we are entitled to a VAT invoice. One of the reasons people try to produce an invoice which is not a VAT invoice is to improve their cash flow and delay the payment of VAT. VAT is payable on the issuance of an invoice. A business which has to wait a couple of months for payment of their invoices suffer the cost of paying the VAT at the time of invoice issuance (or in that VAT accounting period) and they don't get the VAT from the customer till he or she pays. They eal with this by issuing "proforma invoices" and then issuing the real invoice on payment. This isn't the case with Plusnet because they get paid promptly by direct debit. So please don't muck us about and talk about "development teams" etc etc. You are not complying with the law and we expect you to, no matter how much "work" you have on. Correct the "this is not a VAT invoice" phrase on the invoice and put your VAT number on it, please Plusnet.
hp

[#11]

HP - Chris' comment about our development team meant merely that for us to issue VAT invoices for all customers would result in some development team, which is true, ie: not "mucking you about".
I am not versed in the legal/finance connotations, however I believe that for residential services, we are not required to issue VAT invoices, except on request - which as above, we will do.  I cannot remember the exact reason for why we made this change in the first place (it was a few days ago) but I would assume that there will have been a valid reason.

[#12]

Dear Chris,
I hear your plea that you're not versed in the legal or accounting technicalities and I also hear your vague assumption that "there will have been a valid reason" but that simply isn't good enough. You have to comply with the regulations. I quote verbatim from HMRC...
"If you are registered for VAT, then whenever you supply goods or services to someone else who is also registered for VAT you must give them a VAT invoice".
I suggest that a company of your size find someone who is versed in the legal and finance connotations then so that you can A) be certain you are complying and B) actually do comply. The regulations say you are required to issue VAT invoices if you claim to charge it. Filling stations don't decide who will and won't have a VAT invoice dependant on their occupation and nor does anyone else.
It is perfectly possible for the current electonic transaction document to carry your VAT Registration Number and have the claim "This is not a VAT invoice" deleted and it's a very simple and easy job for your company to amend it.
If you choose not to comply, you will only have complaints by customers like me, made to Trading Standards and bad publicity. When you go to all the effort you do, to provide a good service, it seems rather counter-productive. As with all these things, it's really Plusnet's choice versus customer power.
hp

[#13]

Quote

"If you are registered for VAT, then whenever you supply goods or services to someone else who is also registered for VAT you must give them a VAT invoice".

Our residential accounts are not intended for use for business purposes, hence not supplying VAT invoices. On our Business accounts they *are* supplied by default.
As James has said previously we can supply these on residential accounts too on request as we recognise there is a need for this.

[#14]

@hp
Are you conforming to the Acceptable Use Policy that you agreed to when you signed up to Plusnet?

Quote

1.1 You are required to sign-up to an appropriate account type depending on your required utilisation. Home accounts are provided for Consumers. If you wish to use your account commercially then you must sign-up to a Business account or Teleworker account where appropriate. For guidance, we consider commercial use to be at a level above that which is running a part time Business or supporting any kind of hobby. Business accounts must be used if the account is to be used from any official Business Premises while Teleworkers are considered to be commercial use of a residential connection.

Since when have consumers not running a business been VAT registered? I rather think you've just completely dropped yourself in it!

[#15]

I can get my company to pay for my broadband just as they pay for my mobile phone. It's nothing to do with business or not business. I'm simply asking for a proper VAT Invoice so i can reclaim it as an expense. I read on this forum that others are asking for it. I then read Chris's comment "We'll certainly make that suggestion, however it needs to go through development and at the moment there are other items above it on the workstack"
We know it's possible for Plusnet to do. They used to do it for everyone until May of this year. Here is what Plusnet say
VAT Invoice Changes
An update to our billing systems mean that some customers will see a change to the way invoices are displayed.
From May 14th, customers who have previously had VAT displayed as a separate line item will see a total amount displayed, with VAT included.
This will not affect any of your services from us, and you will still pay VAT on all services.

So we have customers asking for VAT invoices. Maybe they are running part time businesses from home .. who knows. From a common sense basis I would have thought that any company would listen to their customers and try to give them the service they want. In addition what is the purpose or point in putting pointless obstacles in their way? I welcome people starting little part-time businesses at a time when one in five people aged 18 to 24 are out of work. Finally the fact is anyone is entitled to a proper invoice. HMRC say about invoices and I quote vertabim again.
"If you are a retailer, you do not need to issue a VAT invoice or receipt unless your customer asks for one."
HMRC go on to say
" If you make retail sales and you make a sale of goods or services for £250 or less including VAT, then when a customer asks for a VAT invoice, you can issue a simplified VAT invoice that only needs to show:
•the seller's name and address
•the seller's VAT registration number
•the time of supply (tax point)
•a description of the goods or services
Also, if the supply includes items at different VAT rates then for each different VAT rate, your simplified VAT invoice must also show:
•the total price including VAT
•the VAT rate applicable to the item
If you accept credit cards, then you can create a less detailed invoice by adapting the sales voucher you give the cardholder when you make the sale. It must show the information described in the six bullets above
You do need to keep copies of any less detailed invoices you issue."
I notice on this thread these things:
a. we have people asking for VAT invoices
b. we have Plusnet saying they might consider reversing their change in policy on providing VAT invoices from 14th May as above, but they want everyone to ask for them if they want them
c. oh yes we have jelv telling me I must be in breach of the Plusnet agreement because I can reclaim my broadband cost from my company. Thank you for that, jelv
but everyone is actually paying for their service and the amount of broadband they use, I really can't see exactly what the problem is or who will be hurt by the issuance of the correct VAT Invoice. Certainly we don't have Plusnet explaining the reasoning behind their change. It all seems quite silly.
I have asked for VAT invoices in future so we'll see what happens.

hp