AS6453.net peering sucks
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Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 12:30 PM
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TRACEROUTE (using proto 1/icmp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 0.73 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 5.09 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 4.87 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 7.83 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 4.83 ms xe-11-1-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.209)
6 11.36 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
7 12.30 ms ae-71-71.csw2.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.82)
8 11.25 ms ae-2-70.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.72)
9 11.49 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
10 88.65 ms xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.107.125)
11 88.22 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
12 88.13 ms mdc-off-fw03.ubisoft.com (216.98.49.143)
13 89.22 ms mdc-mon-smok01.ubisoft.com (216.98.57.134)
I think it's Tinet that need to check their end. There's constantly a 10-15ms difference in pings to those Ubisoft IPs from their two London servers using the Looking Glass:
--- 216.98.57.134 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 77.786/78.116/78.800/0.376 ms
--- 216.98.57.134 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 87.536/88.844/93.541/2.351 ms
Edit: @ deathtrap - I know your problems are not specifically with uplay, but there are also Virgin Media users now reporting problems (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/844795-UK-Connection-issues?p=9573223&viewfull=1#post9573223).
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 3:45 PM
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Oh i did a small amount of testing last night, and the tinet ICMP responce time dropped to the same 97-98ms figure it was with TCP yesterday, it's currently at 160ms icmp , So there's so weirdness going on, unless the icmp starts to lag out when the link get busy the AS route showed a short rise in latency, small hump before .
I think both AS and Tinet have multiple links in use between london and Montreal /and usa Several available to ubisoft , What i think is the reason why I see this congestion and others with different isp's or tracerts from 3 rd parties don't show this with a higher base latency is because plusnet customers for some reason are getting routed over the already busy links by good old level3 , that is possibly down to what agreement SLA's that plusnet or is it BT have with Level 3
IMO if it's gaming traffic that is typically sensitive to latency this should be routed directly where possible and use the least congested links, If plusnet are already paying for this type of service from level 3 then they are not getting value for money IMO
The level 3 link that was direct to ubisoft over tinet used a gblx switch and didn't go via paris and back to london, before going transatlantic ,
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 4:09 PM
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Quote from: deathtrap You have a base ping to Plusnet of 5ms Mine is 12-13ms but as said my ping to ubi via AS6453.net did used to be 89ms So you would of seen pings of 80-81ms this would of been the normal range,
But do you see what I mean - Tinet has two core London routers and there is a difference in ping times.
I tried the AS6453 LG and the ping results were the worst out of the lot (I am just waiting for one of the network guys to say pinging from the looking glass page is not an accurate reflection/test of latency to Ubisoft):
AS6453/Tata
London (HW1)
Quote PING 216.98.54.42 (216.98.54.42): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=0 ttl=56 time=107.703 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=111.962 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=114.851 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=113.382 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=109.354 ms
Quote PING 216.98.57.134 (216.98.57.134): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=0 ttl=56 time=103.281 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=101.191 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=2 ttl=56 time=99.094 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=3 ttl=56 time=103.151 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=4 ttl=56 time=104.150 ms
London (L78)
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 112/144/272 ms
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 108/192/220 ms
London (LDN)
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 104/108/112 ms
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 116/191/300 ms
London (LHX)
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 104/106/108 ms
Quote Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 112/168/196 ms
London (Highbridge)
Quote PING 216.98.57.134 (216.98.57.134): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=0 ttl=57 time=95.183 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=101.542 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=94.930 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=3 ttl=57 time=102.567 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.57.134: icmp_seq=4 ttl=57 time=107.607 ms
Quote PING 216.98.54.42 (216.98.54.42): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=0 ttl=57 time=115.479 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=1 ttl=57 time=116.367 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=2 ttl=57 time=100.081 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=3 ttl=57 time=114.341 ms
64 bytes from 216.98.54.42: icmp_seq=4 ttl=57 time=98.415 ms
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 5:55 PM
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216.98.48.133 (Was used to gaming traffic for a brief period 12mths ago)
216.98.48.134
216.98.48.57
216.98.48.125
216.98.48.102
Some these IP's are routed via Tinet and the others via AS6453.net
I think level 3 could provide a better service to plusnet by routing over better links like GBLX or their GTT as well as routing in a direct fashion, If they are unable to do this then perhaps BT need to review their peering agreements as said theirs more than level3 out there
http://www.wipmania.com/trace/cache/216.98.48.56/?c=df67d2945964385 Is representative to what my ping times are routed via AS6453.net but again iyt should be under 100ms not over
Target Name: ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net
IP: 173.241.128.42
Date/Time: 16/03/2014 18:08:19 to 16/03/2014 18:15:44
Hop Sent Err PL% Min Max Avg Host Name / [IP]
1 180 0 0.0 0 2 0 home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
2 180 5 2.8 14 282 23 lo0-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.195]
3 180 1 0.6 13 20 14 link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.144]
4 180 0 0.0 13 66 17 xe-4-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.240]
5 98 8 8.2 13 314 51 te-4-2.car5.London1.Level3.net [217.163.45.249]
6 180 8 4.4 13 23 14 ae-51-51.csw1.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.88]
7 39 0 0.0 13 38 14 ae-119-3505.edge4.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.1]
8 180 0 0.0 13 38 14 GTT-level3-2x10G.London.Level3.net [4.68.111.26]
9 179 11 6.1 133 287 172 xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net [89.149.184.74]
10 180 3 1.7 90 186 94 ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net [173.241.128.42]
A TCP ping on port 80 , Routing traffic to ubisoft.com like this would provide the lower latency that i had before November, surely this is a possibility , and surely this also highlight s how plusnet are getting shafted by level3 ?
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 6:32 PM
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Quote from: deathtrap Both those Ubi IP 's you found that responded to ICMP , both go the long way AS6453.net VIA CHICAGO
For me, both of those IPs are routed the same way - PlusNet > Level3 London > Level3 Paris > Tinet Paris > Tinet Montreal > Ubisoft
Quote TRACEROUTE (using proto 1/icmp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 0.68 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 13.12 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 6.94 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 8.44 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 7.71 ms xe-11-2-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.213)
6 14.10 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
7 14.29 ms ae-91-91.csw4.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.90)
8 14.13 ms ae-4-90.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.200)
9 13.88 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
10 157.46 ms xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.184.74)
11 90.76 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
12 90.77 ms msr-onl-fw05.ubisoft.com (216.98.51.7)
13 93.13 ms 216.98.54.42
Even the 216.98.48.56 IP looks fine for me:
Quote TRACEROUTE (using port 3077/tcp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 1.39 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 7.34 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 5.88 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 5.22 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 5.31 ms xe-11-2-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.213)
6 11.89 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
7 11.87 ms ae-71-71.csw2.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.82)
8 11.99 ms ae-4-90.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.200)
9 11.76 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
10 162.30 ms xe-4-2-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.107.125)
11 88.81 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
12 88.78 ms msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com (216.98.51.10)
13 90.34 ms lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)
The 173.241.128.42 address you did the traceroute to is a Tinet gateway for Ubisoft - I would ignore the pings to that as they will be all over the place.
I could be totally wrong here - but I would put money on Level3 being a preferred (better) transit/peering partner for most ISPs over the likes of Tinet/Tata. Plusnet pay Level3 for a certain amount of xGb/s per month.
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 6:53 PM
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Oh and the Tinet gateway with a ping of 90ms is more or less consistent , This I'm fairly sure gives a good indication of what the ping time will be to the ubi server , and it is better /lower than tinet routed via Paris or the AS 6453.net via Chicago routing, So IMO it should be used, or at least tried
http://www.wipmania.com/trace/cache/216.98.48.56/?c=3f1a768ac964550 goes some way to back this theory up
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 7:35 PM
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Quote from: deathtrap Oh and the Tinet gateway with a ping of 90ms is more or less consistent , This I'm fairly sure gives a good indication of what the ping time will be to the ubi server , and it is better /lower than tinet routed via Paris or the AS 6453.net via Chicago routing, So IMO it should be used, or at least tried
TRACEROUTE (using port 3077/tcp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 1.65 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 15.65 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 17.06 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 17.06 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 12.14 ms xe-11-2-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.213)
6 20.24 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
7 22.53 ms ae-61-61.csw1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.78)
8 23.55 ms ae-3-80.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.136)
9 23.46 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
10 185.94 ms xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.184.74)
11 95.67 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
12 95.27 ms msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com (216.98.51.10)
13 106.15 ms lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 8:38 PM
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Target Name: lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.comThat's using TCP port 3074 the port the game connects on udp/tcp and there is fluctuation all the time The tinet is more stable, take chicago out of the equation then the 2 would be virtually the same, provided level3 routed directly ie via a gtt or gblx switch
IP: 216.98.48.56
Date/Time: 16/03/2014 19:48:20 to 16/03/2014 20:34:14
Hop Sent Err PL% Min Max Avg Host Name / [IP]
1 1000 0 0.0 0 1 0 home.gateway.home.gateway [192.168.1.254]
2 1000 0 0.0 13 395 22 lo0-central10.ptw-ag01.plus.net [195.166.128.195]
3 1000 0 0.0 13 49 14 link-a-central10.ptw-gw01.plus.net [212.159.2.144]
4 1000 1 0.1 13 81 14 xe-4-2-0.ptw-cr01.plus.net [212.159.0.240]
5 999 154 15.4 13 433 56 te-3-4.car5.London1.Level3.net [217.163.45.181]
6 1000 0 0.0 13 48 14 ae-52-52.csw2.London1.Level3.net [4.69.139.120]
7 970 0 0.0 13 76 15 ae-225-3601.edge3.London1.Level3.net [4.69.166.146]
8 1000 0 0.0 13 61 15 ix-20-0.tcore1.LDN-London.as6453.net [195.219.83.101]
9 1000 23 2.3 107 136 111 if-17-2.tcore1.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.130.129]
10 1000 6 0.6 106 135 107 if-2-2.tcore2.L78-London.as6453.net [80.231.131.1]
11 1000 66 6.6 108 175 114 if-20-2.tcore2.NYY-New-York.as6453.net [216.6.99.13]
12 1000 14 1.4 108 147 112 if-12-6.tcore1.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net [216.6.99.46]
13 1000 6 0.6 108 148 112 if-22-2.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net [64.86.79.1]
14 1000 0 0.0 106 151 112 if-3-2.tcore1.W6C-Montreal.as6453.net [66.198.96.45]
15 5 0 0.0 106 112 109 [66.198.96.18]
16 5 0 0.0 107 113 110 msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com [216.98.51.10]
17 999 994 99.5 114 128 119 lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com [216.98.48.56]
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 8:50 PM
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This is me from pcl-ag02:
TRACEROUTE (using port 3074/tcp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 1.98 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 25.77 ms lo0-central10.pcl-ag02.plus.net (195.166.128.183)
3 6.62 ms link-a-central10.pcl-gw01.plus.net (212.159.2.164)
4 5.95 ms xe-10-1-0.pcl-cr01.plus.net (212.159.0.196)
5 5.96 ms xe-11-1-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.209)
6 12.80 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
7 12.78 ms ae-91-91.csw4.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.90)
8 15.28 ms ae-2-70.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.72)
9 13.35 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
10 134.62 ms xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.184.74)
11 93.27 ms ubisoft-gw.ip4.tinet.net (173.241.128.42)
12 91.14 ms msr-onl-fw01.ubisoft.com (216.98.51.10)
13 97.46 ms lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)
Now from ptw-ag04
TRACEROUTE (using port 3074/tcp)
HOP RTT ADDRESS
1 2.37 ms router.asus.com (192.168.1.1)
2 10.42 ms lo0-central10.ptw-ag04.plus.net (195.166.128.194)
3 8.72 ms link-b-central10.ptw-gw02.plus.net (212.159.2.158)
4 9.14 ms xe-7-2-0.ptw-cr02.plus.net (212.159.0.254)
5 8.73 ms ae2.ptw-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.4)
6 9.18 ms ae1.pcl-cr01.plus.net (195.166.129.1)
7 31.44 ms xe-11-1-0.edge3.London2.Level3.net (212.187.201.209)
8 15.60 ms ae-3-3.ebr1.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.141.86)
9 15.35 ms ae-71-71.csw2.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.161.82)
10 15.38 ms ae-4-90.edge5.Paris1.Level3.net (4.69.168.200)
11 15.44 ms ae5.par22.ip4.tinet.net (141.136.103.181)
12 149.32 ms xe-1-3-0.mtl10.ip4.tinet.net (89.149.184.74)
13 101.74 ms if-12-6.tcore1.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net (216.6.99.46)
14 107.38 ms if-22-2.tcore2.CT8-Chicago.as6453.net (64.86.79.1)
15 101.07 ms lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com (216.98.48.56)
Edit: Try a PCL gateway. I am getting 85-90ms pings from there now to lb-lsg-prod.ubisoft.com
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
16-03-2014 10:57 PM
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Also another consideration that comes with swapping gateways is the endpoint onto BTwholesale's network from exchange /cab , currently this endpoint is good, no or next to no peak time slow downs ,I'm in no rush to change that by gateway hopping to only find that there's no significant result from doing so , not only this but if you were not getting routed this way you would be seeing pings 10ms+ lower than that
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
17-03-2014 8:55 AM
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They don't exactly look great from a gaming viewpoint...
Kelly/the network guys/Barry have explained the lack of specific importance in the geography of the routing. At the moment if you're on a PCL gateway, you are routed Plusnet > Level3 London > Level3 Paris > Tinet Paris > Tinet Montreal > Ubisoft and if you're on a PTW/PTN you are routed Plusnet > Level3 London > Level3 Paris > Tinet Paris > Tinet Montreal > AS6453 Chicago > Ubisoft (this route does not seem to make much sense...)
There does seem to be quite a bit of variance at the moment in the ping response times to those two IPs I posted. Even Cogent (which was as solid as a rock yesterday morning/lunchtime) is now all over the place.
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
17-03-2014 9:57 AM
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AS6453. really need to revert to their direct routing from NewYork or add more capacity over their links, and Level3 should get onto these peering providers or sort out routes that are not overloaded , and to go back to plusnet, they should be applying pressure on level3 as by saying everything is ok and fobbing off plusnet and maybe other isp;s they deserve to loose their custom money talks to these idiots
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
17-03-2014 10:43 AM
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Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
17-03-2014 3:17 PM
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So they tinet and AS6453.net have issues but only with some of their links, not all of them, also the return path can also cause issues , but is probably less likely to do so
Also do you have a tracert from TBB to ubi ? Also with those pingable IP's it's also possible that the servers they are assigned are under heavy use
Plusnet are being quite about this once again
Re: AS6453.net peering sucks
17-03-2014 9:52 PM
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