autoturn decommision and *.plus.com domains
Quote from: dusty_bin Here are some selected MX results:
myadslhost.plus.com. 86400 IN MX 20 mx.last.plus.net.
myadslhost.plus.com. 86400 IN MX 10 mx.core.plus.net.
mydialuphost.plus.com. 86011 IN MX 20 mx-ironport.last.plus.net.
mydialuphost.plus.com. 86011 IN MX 10 mx-ironport.core.plus.net.
myhosteddomain.org.uk. 14326 IN MX 10 autoturn.plus.net.uk.
myhosteddomain.org.uk. 14326 IN MX 20 mx.last.plus.net.
myhosteddomain.org.uk. 14326 IN MX 5 mail.myhosteddomain.org.uk.
1. If mx.last is dissappearing, what happens to mail to myadslhost after this proposed change?
Nothing. Mail gets delivered to the primary mail exchanger as it always should. For the record the 'core' and the 'last' entries point to exactly the same cluster of servers anyway.
Quote from: dusty_bin 2. What's the difference between mx.last and mx-ironport.last?
mx.last relates to our 'inmx' servers. These are the delivery servers that sit behind the IronPort antispam appliances (which is what mx-ironport.last refers to).
Quote from: dusty_bin 3. If this extremely unwelcome action goes ahead, would one solution be that I could I use the PN email MX entries and just preceed them with the MX entry for mail.myhosteddomain?
Interesting question, and one I'll have to get clarification on. My instinct is that our servers won't relay any mail as your domain/mailboxes won't have LDAP entries.
Quote from: dusty_bin Of course the main reason for wanting to avoid POP3 and the PN email system is that I loose control over which mail is bounced during the SMTP dialogue. I don't remember if Plusnet provides the envelope with POP3 delivery - I need to check that too.
Currently with POP3 enabled and spam filtering disabled, we don't reject any mail at the SMTP level. Your mail bypasses the IronPorts and goes directly via the inmx's (as per the first pair of MX records above)
Quote from: dusty_bin Why not just cancel this whole proposal and avoid this problem? - please....
I'm sorry, but I can't see that happening
Quote from: SteveA In the FAQ you helpfully state:
Quote Please note that you will not be able to use a third party backup MX service with your plus.com, free-online.co.uk or force9.co.uk addresses because we don’t allow you to manually alter the DNS information for these ‘virtual domains’
So can you explain just what we are supposed to do?
I'm not sure what further I can add to that tbh? All you can really do is switch to POP3 mail delivery if it presents a problem.
I've inherited an Exchange 2003 server which I think is receiving mail via SMTP from PlusNet. Like many others, I'm aggrieved that these email backup services are being withdrawn and, for one thing, would like to know how much PlusNet is going to reduce our subscriptions now that we're being forcibly moved to a lower grade service.
For example, the cost of external MX backup services, like QBic, seems to be about £30 per annum, so I would hope that Plusnet will be reducing our subscription by at least that amount.
As I mentioned, I've inherited this mail server and, unfortunately, I'm a complete noob when it comes to the workings of email systems. Would anyone be kind enough to explain for me what is an MX record, what does it do, what is a DNS zone, where do I find it, how do I change it? By the way these are all things mentioned on the QBic site, which is one suggested in the PlusNet FAQs as offering an alternative backup service. I'm trying to work out how this could be set up.
One other thing (among many) that I'm not clear about is the Plusnet statement "you will not be able to use a third party backup MX service with your plus.com, free-online.co.uk or force9.co.uk addresses". I'm not clear what this means in my case, as our server receives emails addressed both to user@mydomain.co.uk and user@mydomain.plus.com.
If mails to user@mydomain.plus.com can't be backed up by an external service (is that right?), is there any way to get them somehow re-routed to user@mydomain.co.uk?
I apologise for my lack of knowledge about all this. We've had a service that's run smoothly for years, and has needed little attention - now Plusnet seem to be causing me a load of grief and hassle by giving me a problem that I don't understand how to solve
I'm tempted to avoid all the hassle by getting rid of the mail server altogether and moving our domain to Gmail. Exchange 2003 doesn't work with the latest Outlook for Mac in any case which is a complete pain, and I haven't the first idea how to upgrade it. Has anyone any experience of Gmail - is it a viable solution or a daft idea?
Any words of advice gratefully received...
For example, the cost of external MX backup services, like QBic, seems to be about £30 per annum, so I would hope that Plusnet will be reducing our subscription by at least that amount.
As I mentioned, I've inherited this mail server and, unfortunately, I'm a complete noob when it comes to the workings of email systems. Would anyone be kind enough to explain for me what is an MX record, what does it do, what is a DNS zone, where do I find it, how do I change it? By the way these are all things mentioned on the QBic site, which is one suggested in the PlusNet FAQs as offering an alternative backup service. I'm trying to work out how this could be set up.
One other thing (among many) that I'm not clear about is the Plusnet statement "you will not be able to use a third party backup MX service with your plus.com, free-online.co.uk or force9.co.uk addresses". I'm not clear what this means in my case, as our server receives emails addressed both to user@mydomain.co.uk and user@mydomain.plus.com.
If mails to user@mydomain.plus.com can't be backed up by an external service (is that right?), is there any way to get them somehow re-routed to user@mydomain.co.uk?
I apologise for my lack of knowledge about all this. We've had a service that's run smoothly for years, and has needed little attention - now Plusnet seem to be causing me a load of grief and hassle by giving me a problem that I don't understand how to solve
I'm tempted to avoid all the hassle by getting rid of the mail server altogether and moving our domain to Gmail. Exchange 2003 doesn't work with the latest Outlook for Mac in any case which is a complete pain, and I haven't the first idea how to upgrade it. Has anyone any experience of Gmail - is it a viable solution or a daft idea?
Any words of advice gratefully received...
Quote from: Telematech I've inherited an Exchange 2003 server which I think is receiving mail via SMTP from PlusNet.
Ahh, the joys of "inheriting" systems and being left in a foreign land you know nothing about !
Quote ... would like to know how much PlusNet is going to reduce our subscriptions now that we're being forcibly moved to a lower grade service.
Nothing at all. Like everyone else, they are entitled to change their services. If you feel that the service is not worth it any more then you are of course free to go elsewhere.
Quote For example, the cost of external MX backup services, like QBic, seems to be about £30 per annum, so I would hope that Plusnet will be reducing our subscription by at least that amount.
There are cheaper services. I don't know what my employer charges, but it's quite a bit less than that.
Quote Would anyone be kind enough to explain for me what is an MX record, what does it do, what is a DNS zone, where do I find it, how do I change it?
MX stands for Mail eXchanger - it's simply a way of looking up in the DNS where mail for a domain should be delivered. So a server with a mail to deliver to mydomain.co.uk will make a query to the DNS system and ask for the MX records for that domain. It will then attempt to deliver the mail, starting the with server listed with the highest priority.
DNS zones are (simplifying things somewhat) simply the list of records for a domain.
The complication is that a zone may contain records for more than one level - so a business might split things up and have uk.somebusiness.com, the records for which could be in the same or a different zonefile to the records for somebusiness.com. But you can ignore that for this discussion.
For a <customer>.plus.com address you don't have access to the DNS, other than indirectly via the Plusnet portal (it's under My Account -> Email Settings). In there, you have the option of setting your mail delivery to be via SMTP and give an address to deliver the mail to. When you set this, PlusNet's systems will create an MX record directing mail to "mail.<customer>.plus.com" (plus the backup servers being withdrawn) AND create an A record pointing mail.<customer>.plus.com to the Ip address you specified.
For other domains (eg your mydomain.co.uk) you have more control - it's done through your portal (My Account -> ~Domain Names). You can specify delivery via SMTP in which case I assume the system does the same as I described above, or you can manually manage your DNS records. If you choose this latter option, you will need to create an A record (if it doesn't already exist) for your mail server, and an MX record pointing to it. To add a backup MX, you just need to add an additional MX record (and of course arrange for that server to handle your mail).
Quote One other thing (among many) that I'm not clear about is the Plusnet statement "you will not be able to use a third party backup MX service with your plus.com, free-online.co.uk or force9.co.uk addresses". I'm not clear what this means in my case, as our server receives emails addressed both to user@mydomain.co.uk and user@mydomain.plus.com.
It means that PlusNet's systems don't allow you to specify more than one MX record for your <customer>.plus.com mail - thus you can't add a third party backup MX.
Quote If mails to user@mydomain.plus.com can't be backed up by an external service (is that right?), is there any way to get them somehow re-routed to user@mydomain.co.uk?
No, I've just had a look, and you can't do this. Aliases can only point to mailboxes in the same domain it seems, so you can't redirect mail out to a different domain.
Quote We've had a service that's run smoothly for years, and has needed little attention - now Plusnet seem to be causing me a load of grief and hassle by giving me a problem that I don't understand how to solve
What PlusNet are doing won't break your setup - it will continue to work fine and in some ways may even work better (it depends if you have any anti-spam controls in place). All it means is that if your server is off-line for any length of time (server down, broadband down) then mail can't be delivered. At the moment, mail will be delivered to PlusNet's backup servers and they will hold it for you until your server is back online. After these are withdrawn, the sending servers will have to hold it - which they are *required* to do by the standards.
The difference is that PlusNet's will hold the mail for quite a while, others will have different settings for how long they'll hold your mail before they "return to sender" (called "bouncing").
In some ways it's preferable for mail to bounce - the sender will get some indication that you haven't got the mail, and for many setups will get a warning after only a few hours that the mail is delayed. With the current setup, you could be offline for days or weeks, and the sender will get no indication that you didn't get their mail.
Quote I'm tempted to avoid all the hassle by getting rid of the mail server altogether and moving our domain to Gmail. Exchange 2003 doesn't work with the latest Outlook for Mac in any case which is a complete pain, and I haven't the first idea how to upgrade it. Has anyone any experience of Gmail - is it a viable solution or a daft idea?
I understand your frustration - we've just migrated from 2003 to 2010 at work for internal mail, and Entourage can't talk to 2010. There's a free update to the OWS version, but that can't talk to 2003 - thus scuppering my plans to add a second account and be able to toss mail between them. When people talk of Windows being a "standard" they are talking complete b***ocks - Miscro$oft are always shifting the goalposts (in this case completely changing the interface to Exchange and dropping the old one) when they feel like it.
As to Gmail, well just be aware that it's not free. Google may not charge you cash, but be very sure they expect to make money from selling advertising against it - and that probably means they are reading all your mail to profile it. Also, depending on how paranoid you are, being a US based business, it means all your mail is readable on demand by US officials.
Quote from: SimonHobson The difference is that PlusNet's will hold the mail for quite a while, others will have different settings for how long they'll hold your mail before they "return to sender" (called "bouncing").
In some ways it's preferable for mail to bounce - the sender will get some indication that you haven't got the mail, and for many setups will get a warning after only a few hours that the mail is delayed. With the current setup, you could be offline for days or weeks, and the sender will get no indication that you didn't get their mail.
There's another possibility with the current setup. It may not be fingering autoturn correctly in which case there could be mail received by autoturn (so the sender thinks it has been delivered as there was no bounce), and you don't receive it because autoturn is never asked to deliver it.
I've been a customer of Plusnet for many years, initially as dial up then as early ADSL, and most of the time I've been very happy with them (even when I was paying £300 installation / £80 month for ADSL!!). I have a business account for which I obviously pay a significant premium for, however I am now very concerned that Plusnet are withdrawing a service which is obviously very much targetted at us business users. I have been recomending Plusnet to many of my customers, and I know of at least 2 that are using the Autoturn feature (as I set it up for them!).
The nature of ADSL means that it not as reliable as other "leased line" connections so ther are always times when my Exchange server is not available even though it runs 24/7. I have monitored mails received from my Autoturn connection and there are sometimes 30-50 a day, so the service is clearly very much being utilised.
Whilst I accept that remote email servers will attempt to retry undeliverable messages, this is not necessarily a solution that can be relied upon. The suggestion that I now pay a third-party for a similar service I find particularly offensive - why should I? I ALREADY PAY PLUSNET for this service.
I don't know if Plusnet are trying to wind down their business customers or not, but it is starting to appear that way to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of your sales team to contact me to discuss re-alligning my account with a more justifiable service
Regards
Paul
The nature of ADSL means that it not as reliable as other "leased line" connections so ther are always times when my Exchange server is not available even though it runs 24/7. I have monitored mails received from my Autoturn connection and there are sometimes 30-50 a day, so the service is clearly very much being utilised.
Whilst I accept that remote email servers will attempt to retry undeliverable messages, this is not necessarily a solution that can be relied upon. The suggestion that I now pay a third-party for a similar service I find particularly offensive - why should I? I ALREADY PAY PLUSNET for this service.
I don't know if Plusnet are trying to wind down their business customers or not, but it is starting to appear that way to me. Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of your sales team to contact me to discuss re-alligning my account with a more justifiable service
Regards
Paul
Simon
You're right to ask spam or mail. The majority is received is spam (as with all the mail delivered to my server pre the anti spam engine) but it does also include real wanted email messages. My server utilises the anti-spam engine regardless from where the email is delivered ( I suspect the autoturn in your scenario was taken as an internal server so the ant-spam was bypassed)
Many servers (I am thinking of companies that offer automated services such as credit card statements, mailshots etc) only have a single retry period sometimes as short as a few hours, which can easily result in messages being undelivered - sometimes I may welcome not getting a credit card statement, but in reality I do want to receive it!
Services like this do indeed cost money and resources to run and support, but please understand that is why I still expect them, bearing in mind I DO pay considerably more for my business account than I would for a "Home" account without such facilities.
Regards
Paul
You're right to ask spam or mail. The majority is received is spam (as with all the mail delivered to my server pre the anti spam engine) but it does also include real wanted email messages. My server utilises the anti-spam engine regardless from where the email is delivered ( I suspect the autoturn in your scenario was taken as an internal server so the ant-spam was bypassed)
Many servers (I am thinking of companies that offer automated services such as credit card statements, mailshots etc) only have a single retry period sometimes as short as a few hours, which can easily result in messages being undelivered - sometimes I may welcome not getting a credit card statement, but in reality I do want to receive it!
Services like this do indeed cost money and resources to run and support, but please understand that is why I still expect them, bearing in mind I DO pay considerably more for my business account than I would for a "Home" account without such facilities.
Regards
Paul