Introduction of Cessation Charge

[#1]

I'm perhaps thinking of moving in the next few years and would object strongly for being charged to move out on top of all the charges I'll be paying to various services (electric, gas, BT, Sky, etc) on moving in.
This also restricts me if I decide I want to go back to Virgin (NTL that was). Okay it's going to take hell freezing over before I'd venture back to those muppets, but should that happen I would not be happy with BT charging me £20 for the privileged.
Surely this is illegal anyway? Especially if you are outside of any minimum term contract. I would have thought your consumer rights allow you to terminate a service outside of contract lock-ins without penalty.
Well, I'll for one be complaining.

[#2]

Just to let people know how the Ofcom procedure seems to work - or does it?
I have phoned Ofcom just now on 020 / 7891 3040 given on the website and explained what's currently going on with this cessation charge at PlusNet / BT Wholesale / BT Openreach.
The Ofcom person gave me a case number for my complaint and told me that I have to put the complaint in writing, send it by recorded delivery to PlusNet and ask for a formal review and investigation. If PlusNet and myself cannot come to some sort of agreement, then PlusNet have to issue a Deadlock letter, which I then need to refer to the CIFAS ombudsman (update: not sure what CIFAS has to do with this).
I wonder how many people will be put off from making a formal complaint because of the hassle. Even I am not 100% sure that I can be bothered.
I also told the Ofcom guy that, although I have objections to the way that PlusNet decided to insert a cessation charge clause into my old contract, which did not have any such clause - basically, (1) because it is worded as a "blanco cheque" clause and (2) because I am given only 30 days to reject the change (or implicitly accept it), which I think is not enough if I wanted to look into transferring to a cable operator - my main objections are actually with BT Wholesale and possibly BT Openreach: (a) BT Wholesale have increased the cessation charge from about £5 to £15, while it is not clear that BT Openreach has done the same, ie an issue regarding this new BT Wholesale charge reflecting true cost. (b) In case BT Openreach increased their charges too, did this happen before BT Wholesale did it, and did it reflect true cost? (c) The whole cessation charge business restricts competition because it is designed to make you stay with BT by creating a financial barrier to switch to a cable operator.
Ofcom replied that, "unfortunately", I cannot talk to BT Wholesale or BT Openreach directly, as I am not their customer... How convenient: PlusNet blames BT Wholesale, but, presumably, does not complain, as a company, to Ofcom about it.  It's family after all, and it's much easier to simply pass the cost on to the consumer. Or how a big company can use a chain of separate legal entities to shield itself from the customer by making it difficult to complain. But then, as the current economy shows us, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way big business works these days. But that's another topic.

[#3]

Quote from: Jameseh

Up until this point, we've been absorbing the £5.75 cease charge, but we just can't afford to absorb the additional charge without either passing it on to the customer or increasing prices.

I may not be a captain of industry  but this seems to me to be a marketing issue
at the moment plusnet gives you you get a router and no setup fee, why a free router? not provinding would save a few quid surely.
Another possibility could to only levy  the charge on monthly contracts and not annual ones

is the parent company really to blame hear? 

[#4]

I hope you will be highlighting this £20 charge on the signup pages in large letters and not burying it in the terms and conditions for new users?
BTW I have not received (yet) any notice of variation of contract, either by email or letter.
I do not use any additional spam block programs.

[#5]

Hi Jeremy,
I've sent you a copy of the email.

[#6]

Quote from: Jameseh

I've sent you a copy of the email.

Thanks - but it makes me wonder if there might not be others 

[#7]

We should be adding a "service notice" to all accounts too, so everyone should be able to see the notice.

[#8]

I have been with PN for nearly 4 years, and they have repeatedly change the terms of the contract. Giving faster speeds but capping the download limit which used to be unlimited. However this is different.
If PN decide to alter the terms and conditions of the contract again and I decide in the future that I don't agree with them and I decide to terminate my broadband because of the change, will I have to pay the cease charge. Previously I could walk away with no charge.
If I do have to pay the cease charge, then thats not fair, because you could in theory keep adding in charges e.g."for using more than 1 GB over your usage allowance we are adding a charge of £100, and by the way also increasing the cease charge to £500.
I think that this would ammount to an Illegal tie in to the contract. Anyone changing the terms of the contract  should not be able to hold the other parties to ransom in order to force through the change.
Can anyone clarify this.
And finally tongue in cheek,
If I send PN a contract change in an email, even if they never read it, and give them 30 days notice will they be liable to me for a charge of £1000 for processing any future contract changes unless they terminate the contract first by following my standard procedure which i have documented on my pc.

[#9]

The answer is presently very simple. 
Use the MAC to transfer to a company with a 1 month contract, no cessation charge and who do incoming migrations for nothing.
You can then cease the line without any costs.
As I am very happy with PlusNet I won't be changing even though I may be hit with £20 at some time in the future.

[#10]

Quote from: ctech500

at the moment plusnet gives you you get a router and no setup fee, why a free router? not provinding would save a few quid surely. Another possibility could to only levy  the charge on monthly contracts and not annual ones

Or do like most other businesses using contracts, only charge the termination fee if within the minimum term. Surely it can't be that much to absorb the extra cost over long terms ?
and does it really cost an extra £1.50 or whatever to collect the money to pass internally from one part of the same company to another? Why not at least absorb the admin cost?
In fact if Plus were absorbing the old £5 fee, why not discount the fee by £5?

[#11]

Just a thought for everyone - I have looked carefully at Bob Pullen's quote from BT wholesale and would summarise its meaning as follows:
They expect to incur expense due to "end user access ceases" in 50% of cases:
a. where the end user decides they do not require broadband any more
b. where the end user switches to cable
c. where a house move occurs where the incoming occupier does not wish to purchase ADSL based broadband.
It is incurred, they say, for "jumper recovery" and estimate that half will need to be made individually and the rest in bulk.
I should point out therefore that in none of these cases is it a requirement placed upon them by the end user. He or she has no need for BT to recover these jumpers or remove the broadband signal. Presumably they do it for their own benefit in providing new connections, and in ensuring that the lines are ready to provide new voice-only connections should this be the requirement of the new end user, as in case c. Therefore BT have no claim on the end user for this work whatsoever and any attempt to do so would fail. By the same token, neither do you. The fact that they call it a "cease charge" is neither here nor there, it is clearly an expense incurred in providing new connections, and wrapping it up as anything else will not wash.
Therefore I'm sorry to say that if you attempt to pass it on to us as such we will have every justification in refusing to pay it. I, for one, would certainly prevent any attempt to collect it.

[#12]

Plusnet need the money to pay for flights to South Africa (and back). 

[#13]

Puddy, why have you been told to 'shut-up'; and who told you.  I thought this was a community forum.  Or are you PN staff?

[#14]

Quote

Quote from: metalblade on 25/09/2008, 22:51 1/ what are these charges ? 2/ If I decide to leave Plus Net before October 29th will these charges still apply as you are changing the contract I agreed to ? 3/ If i don't agree to the cancellation fee is there a link where I can end my contract with Plus Net ? 1 - Any deferred contracts would still be owable, along with a 30 day notice period. 2 - The cease charge would not apply if leaving before October 29th. 3 - Just follow the standard cancellation path.

Well it would seem loyalty counts for nothing to Plus Net who are happy to continue taking my monthly direct debit for a vastly overpriced 8Mb broadband which was unlimited when I first signed up. Further to that they are continually changing terms and conditions leaving me with a 20Gb cap. It looks to me like a pretty crap service I may as well go onto cable and have faster broadband + phone +TV for little more than I pay Plus Net just for broadband. Reading the whole thread the idea from Plus Net is if you don't like it jog on.
BYE BYE Plus Net

[#15]

Quote from: belrock

Just to let people know how the Ofcom procedure seems to work - or does it? I have phoned Ofcom just now on 020 / 7891 3040 given on the website and explained what's currently going on with this cessation charge at PlusNet / BT Wholesale / BT Openreach. The Ofcom person gave me a case number for my complaint and told me that I have to put the complaint in writing, send it by recorded delivery to PlusNet and ask for a formal review and investigation. If PlusNet and myself cannot come to some sort of agreement, then PlusNet have to issue a Deadlock letter, which I then need to refer to the CIFAS ombudsman (update: not sure what CIFAS has to do with this). I wonder how many people will be put off from making a formal complaint because of the hassle. Even I am not 100% sure that I can be bothered. I also told the Ofcom guy that, although I have objections to the way that PlusNet decided to insert a cessation charge clause into my old contract, which did not have any such clause - basically, (1) because it is worded as a "blanco cheque" clause and (2) because I am given only 30 days to reject the change (or implicitly accept it), which I think is not enough if I wanted to look into transferring to a cable operator - my main objections are actually with BT Wholesale and possibly BT Openreach: (a) BT Wholesale have increased the cessation charge from about £5 to £15, while it is not clear that BT Openreach has done the same, ie an issue regarding this new BT Wholesale charge reflecting true cost. (b) In case BT Openreach increased their charges too, did this happen before BT Wholesale did it, and did it reflect true cost? (c) The whole cessation charge business restricts competition because it is designed to make you stay with BT by creating a financial barrier to switch to a cable operator. Ofcom replied that, "unfortunately", I cannot talk to BT Wholesale or BT Openreach directly, as I am not their customer... How convenient: PlusNet blames BT Wholesale, but, presumably, does not complain, as a company, to Ofcom about it.  It's family after all, and it's much easier to simply pass the cost on to the consumer. Or how a big company can use a chain of separate legal entities to shield itself from the customer by making it difficult to complain. But then, as the current economy shows us, there is something fundamentally wrong with the way big business works these days. But that's another topic.

Yes there web-site seems designed to discourage complaints - or even feedback from users.  No surprise at all, I suppose.