The end of analogue phone lines....

[#1]

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@RobPN wrote:

You probably realised @jab1 , but comparing the two maps, the 'Fibre First' map (2nd link) only shows info regarding that program, whereas I believe the TBB map shows TBB forum members known to be already subscribing to FTTP, and in reality there can be some area overlap between the two different data sets which may not be apparent.

e.g. the Fibre First map for Cornwall (where I know there is already a lot of OR native FTTP installed) shows only a couple of areas 'Work in progress' and three 'In plan'.  One of those two 'Work in progress' areas already has a fair bit of OR native FTTP so I suspect that is an instance of OR 'infilling' their FTTP coverage by overbuilding the FTTC areas.

Comparing the maps for Sheffield seems to show a similar 'overlap' (for want of a better word), so I'm wondering if you look closely at the TBB one, can you see any grey (black if multiples overlapping) dots showing FTTP connections anywhere near your own area?

Sometimes there may be small clusters of OR native FTTP enabled due to one or more punters stumping up cash for OR to intall FTTPoD (oD = 'on Demand' - requiring cash up front from customers).

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Yup - just expanded the TBB map as far as possible, and there are a couple of grey/black dots. Knowing exactly where they are (new builds on a previously greenfield site), I suspect they are pole-mounted fibre cables fed from the nearest green box - we can get 80/20 FTTC here, although I'm only going for 40/10, as I can't justify the higher speeds based on my usage. I'll probably  only notice the difference when I have to do the very occasional big program update or my Linux machine moves up a build.

[#2]

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@RobPN wrote:

Not OR, but looking at the TBB map again @jab1 and ticking all the different providers check-boxes in turn shows that there's a solid FTTP coverage of an area of Sheffield city centre by a company named Pine Media.

https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#13/53.3810/-1.4275/pinemedia/

Edit:  No worries @jab1, I missed your post above.  

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I know of Pine Media - they are a small company set up originally to serve places like the Town Hall, council offices, hotels w.h.y. in the city centre then expanded into the area on the map, but I think, then ran out of capital to spend on further real growth outside this area. I know my computer service guy, who is based in the city centre used them for a while, but for some reason became disillusioned and moved to Zen when he switched offices.

[#3]

So following on from the most informative post by @RobPN it's a question of how you define a digital phone line, or more precisely, when is digital not digital.

I am a simple soul and to me a digital link has 0s and 1s passing down it. FTTC is not digital over the last section from the cabinet to the home, as in its name it is multiband ac signals over a broad frequency band being passed over a line designed for narrow band ac voice transmission. In other words, it is a bodge, be it a clever bodge, designed to delay the job of doing the job properly and taking fibre all the way to the property.

This much hailed change to digital phones looks like what is being proposed is the further roll out of this dead end bodge to all subscribers who are not on the select list of those who will get FTTP.

The only possible salvation will be if the two technologies run together and broadband subscribers get FTTP and the FTTC infrastructure is used only for phone only lines rather than we all having to pay for the further expansion of FTTC.

[#4]

There is always a "physical" layer in any digital system. This is Layer 1 in the OSI 7 layer model.

For both optical and copper delivered digital services there is something "analogue" in the system.

Clearly FTTP is the desired outcome as that facilitates various possible services once it is in place.

By some means "the market" will need to be manipulated to achieve universal coverage of FTTP. This could be by regulation, subsidy or other "encouragements" but it will be needed.

Looking on the bright side, the implementation will provide employment.

I'm old enough to remember the conversion to North Sea gas and the conversion of all copper phone lines to fibre is of a similar magnitude.       

[#5]

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@markhawkin wrote:

There is always a "physical" layer in any digital system. This is Layer 1 in the OSI 7 layer model.

For both optical and copper delivered digital services there is something "analogue" in the system.

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Speech is comprised of different frequencies and amplitudes so of course there is 'analogue' in the system but quoting 7 layer models does not explain why this analogue conversion needs to stray outside of the telephone handset.

I am just disappointed that rather than linking all homes with a proper digital connection the 'Grand' short sighted plan as far as the majority of the country is concerned (and for the forseeable future) is to continue and even possibly expand the FTTC bodge.

I guess that the driver is short term profit rather than applying high level system engineering to identify and install suitable infrastructure to meet this country's long term needs. Maybe wireless will make this whole, over complex, expensive to maintain mess obsolete anyway; and that's the future?

[#6]

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@jab1 wrote:

I am not aware of any other FTTP providers thinking of improving on BT's performance - certainly nothing appearing in local media, anyway, and the 'Fibre First' link doesn't show any planned (i.e. thought of) work by 2024!

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@jab1 

Here's a fibre checker you might like to put your postcode into (then choose your address). 

https://www.cityfibre.com/

I tried it with some random Sheffield close-to-city-centre postcodes obtained from Google maps and got mixed results.

Some which were probably more likely said "We are currently planning the build programme in your area. etc."

By comparison, others which are probably less likely said "Thanks for your interest, we haven’t planned your area at the moment. etc."

Good luck!  

[#7]

As I expected, @RobPN - no plans. We are right in the South-west edge of the city, and although it is a very built-up area, no-one seems interested. Not really a problem - as I will be getting close to 40/10 when I move to Zen in two or three months, that will be more than sufficient for my needs. My current 8-ish download is really okay for most of what I do, although it will be nice to download Zorin 16 at a reasonable rate.

[#8]

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@jab1 wrote:

... - no plans. We are right in the South-west edge of the city, and although it is a very built-up area, no-one seems interested. ...

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Sorry @jab1 , I must be going bonkers - for some reason I thought you'd mentioned living near the city centre!

[#9]

I did live very close to the city-centre  - about 30 years ago.😀

If you know Sheffield at all, I lived at Park Hill for 5 or 6 years, after moving first to a bed-sit about 3 miles to the south.

[#10]

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@jab1 wrote:

If you know Sheffield at all, ...

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I don't know Sheffield at all.  

[#11]

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@jab1 wrote:

I know my computer service guy, who is based in the city centre used them for a while, but for some reason became disillusioned and moved to Zen when he switched offices.

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That sounds like a pay rise to me?

[#12]

@Alex 😕

[#13]

The good thing about analogue phones is that they carry on working during power cuts, fire, pestilence etc

[#14]

@jab1 I think you may be confusing Pine with another provider. Pine is investing heavily in FTTP builds across the City centre and suburbs - https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/08/pine-medias-sheffield-fttp-broadband-build-to-hit-50k-...

[#15]

@pmwill I suspect you are a Pine Media spokesperson, or associated with them. I have seen the areas covered by said provider, and there is nothing planned, AFAIK, for anything to west, east or south of the city centre, although I can see areas to the north which they appear to cover. BTW, I was not confusing Pine with another provider - I was looking at the Pine site to discover the areas they were operational in, at the time of my posting.

EDIT TO ADD: I also checked if they were likely to be coming to my area, with the expected negative response.