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Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

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Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

This may be a silly title but this is what happened
I enabled Guest WIFI on my Billion 8800NL Router and allowed my neighbour to access it while his broadband was down
To my surprise all the shared folders and files on my networked computers (wired) and also the ones on his computers (wireless) were fully visible and accessible
How could this happen
P.S. It won't happen now as I isolated it via a convoluted and non intuitive procedure
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Surely the whole point of Guest WiFi is to prevent that?  I presume you yourself were not connected to the guest network?  If not, then it must be a Billion mess-up.
rongtw
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

I thought in network sharing  center you  had to define which folders were shared Huh and you could password protect some ?Huh
i may be wrong been a while since i set one up  Roll eyes
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Quote from: ReedRichards
Surely the whole point of Guest WiFi is to prevent that?  I presume you yourself were not connected to the guest network?  If not, then it must be a Billion mess-up.
it is hence my note about isolating it
However that doesn't answer the fundamental question
Why, when using the Billion, does Windows see all the networked devices even when they are not part of the same Group
To add - if anyone is remotely interested - this is how to do it
Quote
You need to create a 'Interface Group' for your 'Guest Network'
Example
1. Click on Interface Grouping
2. Click on 'Add'
3. Enter a 'Group Name' eg guest
4. Under 'Available LAN Interfaces' select your 'Guest Network' and click on the arrow pointing left, so the guest wifi network should now be added to 'Grouped LAN Interfaces'
5. Click on 'Apply'
6. Under 'Group Isolation' tick the box and click on 'Apply'
7. Click on 'LAN >> Ethernet'
8. Under 'Group Name' select your guest wifi group for this example I used 'guest'
9. Tick 'LAN Side Firewall' and click on 'Apply'
That should be it, the guest wifi network should be totally isolated.
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Quote from: Oldjim
the fundamental question
Why, when using the Billion, does Windows see all the networked devices even when they are not part of the same Group

To me, that's not the fundamental question.  Windows is trying to be helpful by showing you all the shared folders it can see.  The fundamental question is "what purpose does a Guest network serve if it's not isolated from the Home network"?
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

I read this with interest as I have the 8800axl and can see the need for a guest access in the near future.

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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

@ReedRichards
For me it is the fundamental question given the known problems of networking Win 7 and XP
This router somehow manages to network them without problems
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Are these Windows 7 & XP Home or other editions (e.g. Professional)?
I presume you put your Home and guest on different subnets.
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

That's the first time you mentioned XP and 7, Oldjim.  So you have a machine that makes something fundamentally difficult easy - when it's supposed to be making it impossible! 
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

@jelv
I don't understand your point
The machines at home are on a defined group which isn't the Windows default
The machines at my neighbours wouldn't be on a group with the same name
@ReedRichards
I agree it is most odd
One thing which is different between the TG582 and the Billion is that with the TG582  I had to allocate the XP computer a fixed IP address as often waking the Win 7 machine from sleep it wouldn't pick up the XP computer which was switched off every night and sometimes was given a different IP address.
This doesn't happen with the Billion
Basically, before I isolated the guest wifi, all the computers on the wired network could see all the computers and their shared folders/files on the guest wireless and vice versa. This was regardless of the operating systems which were a mixture of XP and Win 7
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Under Home versions the Windows security is very weak. Under Professional it is much stronger and even if the computers can be seen, you wouldn't be able to access them unless the shares had Everyone allowed.
The router will know nothing about the windows groups (nor should it). It's role is to pass traffic based on the subnets and the masks, so unless you set specific rules, all connected devices will be able to see all other devices on the same subnet.
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

But isn't the Guest network on a different subnet in order to prevent this?
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Not by default - the firmware doesn't do what you think it should http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3335 as far back as the 7800 series
This was the link I was originally referred to over at Kitz forum http://www.billion.uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=3556
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

Screwed or screwy, yes!
nanotm
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Re: Networking on Windows without joining the workgroup

yeah they have a strange way of doing stuff on billions, its almost backwards, like firewall blocking rules have to be written backwards, and in a certain order or else you cant connect to the router without performing a factory reset....
as to the networking issue I setup my guest network with aid of billion fan quite some time ago on the 7800dx and then basically copied the setup across to the 8800axl when I was forced to replace the BT modem (that kept falling over) last week.

its a business router so your expected to know a bit about wifi setup, it didn't make sense to me that something using a totally separate ip range could interact with the all the other connected devices but apparently its a standard thing for shared devices to be on the primary network that all the other working groups are linked to (like printers) to allow for a business to minimise the number of hardware items requiring support
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you