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Leaving PlusNet

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Leaving PlusNet

I've been a PlusNet customer since long before they were bought by BT: so more than 14 years. I have finally got tired of waiting for IPv6 support, and I'm off to Zen. I respect PlusNet enough to at least explain why.

It's a shame: I've never had a single problem with PlusNet. I've recommended dozens of other people (including businesses, I work as an IT consultant); despite not getting the 50p reward because it was too much effort.

But I'm fed up with running a HE tunnel, and the way PlusNet have dragged their feet on IPv6 makes me worry about their technical and management competence.

So I wish you all well, but I wont be recommending PlusNet in future.

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Seasoned Pro
Posts: 501
Thanks: 318
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎27-12-2019

Re: Leaving PlusNet

Isn't that a bit harsh @sdfranks?

Why not continue to recommend Plusnet to those that do not require IPv6? After all they have, by your own admission, provided you with a flawless service for the past 14 years, so to stop recommending them on the basis that they cannot meet your requirement for IPv6 is, to be honest, a bit petty.

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

I don't think it is harsh, no.

PlusNet have been promising IPv6 for years: always "soon". Multiple dates have come and gone with no rollout, but more importantly, no reason for the delay.

I am leaving because I need IPv6. But the reason I feel can no longer recommend PlusNet is because they have kept promising then failing to deliver. I can forgive a project slipping to some extent, but I think the first trial was somewhere around 2011: that's a lot of slippage.

I cannot know if the problem is technical (they don't know how) or managerial (they are not giving the work the resources needed). I suspect the latter, but it doesn't matter; either is a concern. I feel something is wrong somewhere. The responses from PlusNet in the IPv6 topic in this forum tend to leave me more worried, not less.

So I have lost trust in the company as a whole. And that is why I can no longer recommend them.

I don't think losing my recommendations is going to cause PlusNet any sleepless nights, the numbers are tiny. I'm not going back to people and actively suggesting they move from PlusNet. The only reason for my post was that I thought that they deserve to know. I am a little surprised that PlusNet do not ask why leavers are leaving, I would expect that to be useful information (albeit not so easy to collect). But I guess that is a different issue.

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Seasoned Pro
Posts: 501
Thanks: 318
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Registered: ‎27-12-2019

Re: Leaving PlusNet

@sdfranks - What you say is very valid and few would disagree that Plusnet's projects calendar is made of Teflon. However their inability or unwillingness to provide IPv6 has evidently not stopped you from continued use of their service for over 8+ years since the original trial. If IPv6 really is the issue you say it is then surely you should have left circa 2012!

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

Well, I was prepared to wait for through delays, they can happen to any project in any organisation. As you say, I've had good service; and my free HE tunnel has had 100% availability. So I was getting by.

I think you are right I should have noticed how long it has been earlier, but I've been busy with other stuff (family crises).

I still think that PlusNet's overall handling of IPv6 is a concern. The fact that they still don't offer it after all this time is not good: but I'm not so bothered by that. Far worse is that they don't seem to care, as shown in this forum. Isn't their core business to provide IP connectivity? So isn't the world-wide change to the IP protocol a major issue?

The actual trigger for me to look again at PlusNet (and IPv6) was when I moved house. For some reason it didn't occur to me that this would mean starting a new contract - maybe it should, but then equally maybe PlusNet should have mentioned it. To be clear, this is not in itself any big issue. But not making things crystal clear could be another small sign that they no longer take care to get stuff right.

All of which leaves me wondering what else might be wrong but not yet visible. I worried when they were bought by BT, but they seemed to continue to be managed as a separate entity. Now I wonder if internal investment is suffering. Of course that is only speculation, I have no actual information. But I find it horribly plausible.

I left it until the end of my contract (18 months) to see if there was any improvement. I see no such sign.

I'll be happy to be proved wrong. But I can't recommend any company in which I don't honestly have full confidence. And for me PlusNet no longer does.

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Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 15,936
Thanks: 6,387
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

IPV6 has been discussed by the SUs on a number of occasions.  I think it would be fair to say that this is not yet seen as being a volume demand in Plusnet's target user base - the home user market.  Whilst one can agree that IPV6 is desirable, it is not essential.

As for a new contract on moving home, users have a choice there - pay for the house move, or get a fee house move with a new service commitment (contract).  Such has always been clear in the T&Cs.

9. Moving home

9.1. If you want to move your broadband or fibre broadband service during your minimum term you may have to pay a home move fee as set out in the Price Guide or enter a new agreement with us with a new minimum term.

9.2. If you have fibre broadband, but we can't provide it at your new home, you can move to our broadband service without penalty.

9.3. If we can't provide any broadband service to your new home, you'll have to pay early termination charges as set out in the Price Guide.

9.4. Other home move charges (such as fees for installing a new line) may also apply as set out in the Price Guide.

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Community Veteran
Posts: 20,030
Thanks: 2,724
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Registered: ‎06-11-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

@Townman  Do you really hink that "quoting chapter and verse" is going to change @sdfranks  considered opinion of the reason why he has posted.... and just as importantly.... the reason why he has decided ENOUGH IS ENOUGH..

For me.... it is the same reason...

 

. false promises.... failure to deliver on promise and continued untruths being promulgated by PlusNet staff.

 How many times have you seen staff member come back to my threads, with the age old..

 

"Give us time..... and we`ll get there"...

 

 

Sad     Yeah.... alright....  Sad

 

If you think your posting is some kind of "damage limitation"....

 

the only way to reduce the damage, is for Plusnet to deliver what they advertise  ..

About being...... 

"Open and honest"...... and  " Doing you proud"...

 

 

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Grafter
Posts: 26
Thanks: 5
Registered: ‎22-03-2020

Re: Leaving PlusNet


If you think your posting is some kind of "damage limitation"....

 

the only way to reduce the damage, is for Plusnet to deliver what they advertise  ..

About being...... 

"Open and honest"...... and  " Doing you proud"...

 

 


 

hear, hear. @shutter @sdfranks 

 

just waiting for my new ISP to take over my line/BB  7 days left and counting (then i get IPv6 too!). been a woeful experience, and i will never recommend Plusnet, unless im specifically asked to recommend an ISP with the most ineffective customer and technical support i have ever encountered. - and the forums, which are trawlled by the Superusers, who's only use seem to be to bang to company drum, and whom plusnet can use with deniability.

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Grafter
Posts: 25
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

I don't want to prolong this discussion: I don't feel PlusNet are listening. But one more try at explaining...

@Townman : you say PlusNet's user base is "home user market". That's fine. Then you say there is no "volume demand" from that user base. That is also reasonable: most home users wouldn't know IPv6 if it bit them on the ankle. And, in my opinion, they should not have to know such detail.

But don't you think that this means home users will never directly demand IPv6? So you will wait forever for volume demand?

I claim that the reason to deploy IPv6 is that it is your job to know that users will need it soon, not theirs; and it is easier (and cheaper) to do it now, in a controlled project, than in a hurry when you start getting support questions like "why can't I access site x?". Or whatever becomes the first IPv6-only Internet service. Or they hit some limitation with IPv4. For what it is worth, in my case I discovered two Synology home NAS boxes can't sit behind IPv4 NAT if you want to use Let's Encrypt. OK, my exact use case won't be common, but other situations arise which IPv6 can solve, even where IPv4 is supported. Home users won't know any of this: I think it is PlusNet's job to prevent them from having to know.

So I think PlusNet's approach is flawed, which is a concern. But for me this is a tiny concern compared to the way that PlusNet has handled those few of us that are interested in IPv6. There was a trial: that was encouraging. But since then the response to questions has always been "coming soon". If you truly believe that you must wait for home users to demand IPv6, then you could have stopped all work and answered our questions with that explanation. But it has always been "coming soon", with varying "reasons" for the delay.

Finally, as for my new contract, I only mentioned it as an example of something that could have been handled better. Yes, I was told I must start a new contract. But only at the very last minute: I think a day or so before the move. If you think about it, people moving house are busy around that time, and it is better to offer such choices when someone first asks about a house move (in my case I first asked several weeks before). OK, I might have sat down and re-read all the terms and conditions, but I would prefer to be advised that I had this choice when I first contacted PlusNet. This alone would not cause me even to whinge, let alone make a complaint or leave PlusNet. I just see it as another small clue that PlusNet is gently drifting away from its former helpful customer service.

I have other equally small incidents of not-so-good service recently. Nothing that would, individually, make me do anything. But all together I get the impression that PlusNet is not heading in a good direction.

So I've finally got around to getting native IPv6 and, hopefully, a good service.

Still sorry to go, and I still wish PlusNet and all its customers the best.

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Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 15,936
Thanks: 6,387
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

Hi @sdfranks 

For clarity, I'm a customer just like yourself.  As I said, this topic has been discussed in the SU group and the current sentiment is that this is not something which the majority of the home based user market is demanding.  As you note most people will have no awareness of the technology which makes things work, nor should they need to.  If you are asking ME the question, I do not think that the bulk of users have any understanding of IPV4 nor IPV6 and frankly they do not care ... they have more tangible needs to worry about ... such as does the BT Openreach "wet string" excuse for their connection meet their needs for reliability and speed.

I have a technical back ground, some of my career spent in comms and networking and for sure I would welcome the opportunity to play with IPV6 ... however after playing with it, its just another tool which connects us to the internet.

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Rising Star
Posts: 96
Thanks: 35
Registered: ‎19-08-2018

Re: Leaving PlusNet


@Mook wrote:

@sdfranks - What you say is very valid and few would disagree that Plusnet's projects calendar is made of Teflon. However their inability or unwillingness to provide IPv6 has evidently not stopped you from continued use of their service for over 8+ years since the original trial. If IPv6 really is the issue you say it is then surely you should have left circa 2012!


Why pick on the customer? The first rule of customer service is that the customer is right.

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Seasoned Pro
Posts: 501
Thanks: 318
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎27-12-2019

Re: Leaving PlusNet

@mechanic123, I wasn't 'picking' on the customer, merely making an observation that if the lack of IPv6 was such a bone of contention for them then maybe they should have moved to a compatible provider earlier.

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Pro
Posts: 605
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

"The first rule of customer service is that the customer is right."

is an old adage but it was never any truer than it is now - the first rule of business is to spend your resources in the direction which gives the best return and IPV6 isn't likely to be for a good while yet. I think that trying to spread the issue into something along the lines of not trusting anything they say etc. is a complete red herring. If PlusNet suits you and gives the best value for money according to your own needs then stay and if not then go, but there's no point in making a diva performance about it because it won't change anything, IPV6 just isn't important enough yet.

Democracy - 3 wolves and a lamb voting about what to have for lunch!
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Grafter
Posts: 443
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎16-12-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

Re the comment by sdfranks that Plusnet do not seem to ask customers why they are leaving I just thought I would say that I recently (June 9th 2020) left them after 4 years on this particular connection but previous dealings with Plusnet back to 2003 and also getting my mother switched on to FTTC with Plusnet at her house for 6 years before she unfortunately passed away.

Anyway I left Plusnet to move to Now Brilliant Broadband because on my exchange I only have the option of ADSL2+ or FTTP and Now had a fantastic offer at only £18 per month for 12 months for ADSL2+ LLU (so escaping further from BT Openreach) and with £100 Quidco Cashback making the effective net cost in Year 1 (including £5 connection fee) only £10.08 per month.  And this also came with free anytime calls to landlines and mobiles.  Free for the first year and then £8 per month whilst I notice that complacent BT Retail would want £15 per month for exactly the same thing (Anytime Calls to landlines and mobiles) leaving aside a 2 year contract and the Anytime calls not being free in Year 1 (Now Broadband staff have also already hinted that they will give me free Anytime calls again next year if I make it a condition of signing another 12 month contract).  I have found I get a much faster Ping with Now Broadband and sync speed between 16Mbps and 20Mbps (depending it seems on whether or not the copper line is wet or dry and/or amount of traffic) and data speeds between 13Mbps and 16Mbps are good enough for one person.

Anyway the main point of this post is to say I left Plusnet on June 9th and a couple of weeks later I did get a long and extremely detailed market research survey from a company Plusnet have now employed to find out why so many customers are leaving.  So clearly they are starting to get worried and losing more customers on a net basis than before.  So I let them have it both barrels saying they only ever ran a noddy FTTP trial that they pulled just as I was about to take it up without warning (its main attraction was the fact there was only a 1 month contract compared to BT Retail's ridiculous minimum 2 years for FTTP and massive penalties for terminating only a few months in to that) and that they also punished me for my loyalty by charging me £34 a month for an ADSL2+ service that new customers were only for a long time having to pay £22 per month for and now only £18 per month for.  Also no phone calls of any kind included for a far from cheap monthly price.

I wish that I could remember who the market research survey was with.  I can half see the company's logo but not remember the name but if it comes to me I will add it to this post.  In any case a very long survey with around 70 or more questions that they claimed would only take 15 minutes but definitely took at least 30 minutes.

Let us hope that Plusnet will learn from this and that the now mainly BT trained senior management will realise that if they continue to run it in to the ground like this that they will soon have no customers left.  Unless of course that is their objective as I feel definitely is the case with Royal Mail and their decision to make collection of mail at the vast majority of their post boxes in each area between 7am and 9am in the morning except at a few busy boxes that they are now trying to force everyone to use so they can pull the other boxes completely in another 2 or 3 years time.  And it may be that BT Group's strategy in respect of Plusnet (eg FTTP Trial never became an FTTP product and still no IPV6 when of course even cheap Now Broadband has IPv6 and quite a decent free modem router for an ADSL2+ service at this point in time) is not dissimilar..........

 

EDIT:- The company doing the market research in to why customers are leaving Plusnet is Basis Research  (www.basisresearch.com) in London (I had to remember who it was as the link in the email from Plusnet did not contain the company's own name and it wouldn't let me in to the survey or the company's website again as I had already done the survey).

They also did these paid two hour market research sessions for Plusnet mentioned at https://takepartinresearch.co.uk/plusnet-invites-part-research/ but given the date of Tuesday 5th July it looks like they took place last year in 2019.

Obviously they haven't got to the bottom of the problem yet as customers are still leaving in droves and I suspect a lot of Plusnet customers are leaving either to go to BT Retail (if they want FTTP but can't get it from Plusnet) or to go to Now Broadband, who offer a considerably better deal including Free Anytime Calls to landlines and mobiles in the first year and quite probably also in subequent years (if you just remember to ask when you suggest that you might otherwise be leaving Now at that point in time).

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Post released from Spam Filter.
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Grafter
Posts: 443
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎16-12-2007

Re: Leaving PlusNet

A reply I just made to this thread has been deleted by forum moderators without any explanation.  It appears to be because I referred to why customers are leaving Plusnet for the opposition and also mentioned the name of a market research company called Basis Research carrying our surveys asking why customers are leaving................................