A warning which might prevent a terrible experience.

[#1]

We are expecting to get Full Fibre on our village by the end of this year: BT's Openreach have been at it for quite a while.
In view of that I rang Plusnet and had very many telephone conversations about, in particular, setting up VOIP ahead of the loss of landline. Anyone planning to do this should read, mark, learn:

I repeatedly asked about problems and potential issues. I was told by at least 10 PlusNet responders that I could set up my own VOIP provider and my existing line would work perfectly with my connectivity arrangement.

1. I should select a VOIP provider myself,

2. clear it with BT (current copper landline operator) and on a due day it would all be transferred and work.
So, I contacted BT and reserved my then landline number for transfer, and set up a VOIP Service with Phonely.
3. The days went by: a VOIP adapter arrived in the post and I set it up against my router and landline socket, and waited for the changeover date, and the due time (10:00am) 
4. On the day, 10:00am: suddenly the Internet went dead quiet - no Internet at all.
5. No telephone dialling tone either.
6. I'm hoping not to spend the rest of my life incommunicado!

7. I call PlusNet: As my VOIP is fully incompatible with my copper landline, the landline has been switched off by BT. Question: "Who told me that my VOIP would be incompatible with my landline?"
BT No!
Phonely No!
PlusNet No! 
Hmm black marks to all. Neither asked me about my line, nor advised me that I had the wrong type of line!
In fact they all said (PlusNet & BT) that I could get a VOIP provider, keep my number, and it would work.
However, I now know that apparently I had a copper landline from BT with which my service from PlusNet worked.
No-one told me that VOIP requires at least what PlusNet calls "Copper+Fibre". So my account was closed as I had only pure copper, and that could not work.
TOO LATE THE HERO!
HMMMMM! (The famous Laurel & Hardy line comes to mind!).
So ahead lay hours of calls to PlusNet!

First they had to close my line - losing Internet and all that follows from that. (Email, Web services, Streaming services, on-line banking, etc., etc.).
By Jove - How long would this take to recover?
So began many many hours "on the blower" (quoting "PC Dixon" Jack Warner) over very many days.

I managed to ensure that PlusNet would not close my membership, or I would lose my Static IP address, my two free domain hostings and four sub-domain remote redirections, and my discount from those previous signings who were still with PlusNet, etc etc.

Fortunately the PlusNet financial account was preserved so all I lost was my contract for the Copper Internet connectivity and the Internet service.

OK: however, I needed a New Service compatible with VOIP.

A nice chap from the Tech Team (was his name Wassif?) stepped into the breach, and set me up for a new service in line with exactly what I needed. He told me that it would all work from noon on the immediately following Friday. Whoopee - only FIVE days on being incommunicado.
So I rang on the Wednesday to check how it was going! Imagine my gloom when I was told that such a contract with me did not exist. It needed to be recreated! Ring again tomorrow. Same Story.

However that information was not correct: after that I had a call from an "expert"! She said there had been a delay in setting up my new contract but it was underway, and would complete during the following week!
So Monday arrived, Noon arrived. And hey presto, my router lit up (pleasurable for the Router no doubt!) My VOIP telephone device also lit up.
So my network was now online again WHOOPEE !
My telephone now worked again WHOOPEE !
So the Saga had ended. After just over one week, I now had a new system of connectivity - Copper + Fibre and a better service, too!

LESSONS TO LEARN
1. Knowledge and Assumption With the best will in the world around 10 PlusNet telephone respondents had not told me that my copper telephone landline was NOT compatible with VOIP - even though that was the point of many telephone consultations. Every one said it was fine, although the VOIP service had to be sourced from outside PlusNet (which I knew anyway).

PLUSNET should ensure the learning from my experience is built into staff responses in the future.

2. So many "experts". So many operators told me so many things that turned out to be wrong, including when checking the status and characteristics of the connectivity which would be used instead of "straight copper", and timescale of progress towards completion of the set up of the new connectivity. "Dates for completion" were many and varied and mainly wrong.

CONCLUSION
Of course, I like PlusNet - they answer the telephone when you have a problem. I have been with them sice 2003. But there is somewhat dodgy training of first line staff in knowing how far they should go into detail of technicality with callers. Many spoke and acted beyond their competence. Maybe they were over enthusiastic. Right at the beginning absolutely no-one told me nor realised that my copper landline could not support VOIP and that a change of connective infra-structure was required to work with VOIP.

Sorry this so long. BUT it is written in order to SUPPORT PlusNet, not even to complain or criticise.

Kenneth A Spencer    

[#2]

@kaspencer 

"7. I call PlusNet: As my VOIP is fully incompatible with my copper landline, the landline has been switched off by BT. Question: "Who told me that my VOIP would be incompatible with my landline?"
BT No!
Phonely No!
PlusNet No! 
Hmm black marks to all. Neither asked me about my line, nor advised me that I had the wrong type of line!
In fact they all said (PlusNet & BT) that I could get a VOIP provider, keep my number, and it would work.
However, I now know that apparently I had a copper landline from BT with which my service from PlusNet worked.
No-one told me that VOIP requires at least what PlusNet calls "Copper+Fibre". So my account was closed as I had only pure copper, and that could not work."

So why was you existing line incompatible with VoIP? Did you have a direct to exchange phone line (Exchange Only Line)? Were you on ADSL?

[#3]

My suspicion - the OP was one of a very small number who have phone with BT and internet with (in this case) Plusnet.

The two do not communicate - they have no reason to do so.

If a phone connection is ceased, it will, by the very nature of ADSL/FTTC , cease the associated internet service.

[#4]

@pvmb 
Well, it's a technicality, of which most PlusNet responders were unaware.
My PlusNet account started in 2003, and went through all the changes from various ADSL generations to what was my immediately previous arrangement of so-called broadband over copper. It gave me around 40kb/s on a good day. That Internet connectivity has that speed limit, but work/s/ed well, carrying telephone at the same time, and depending on filtering the audio/HF signals to separate them from the mega frequency of the broadband signal.
I have a fibre line from the telephone exchange in our nearest town to a cabinet in the village (4 miles, as FTTC). Then copper from the cabinet to our property. Typical FTTC arrangement.

HOWEVER as I was told (eventually) by PlusNet's actual cogniscenti, that this arrangement cannot sustain a digital telephone service. I do not ACTUALLY know why or what has to be done, but the arrangement simulates a fibre service, but over copper. And that is what I now have. HOWEVER no local wiring changes were made, so maybe a PlusNet engineer might read this and clarify the real principles!

I hope that helps!!

KASpencer

=========

[#5]

Sounds sensible John.
KAS.

[#6]

@kaspencer 

"My PlusNet account started in 2003, and went through all the changes from various ADSL generations to what was my immediately previous arrangement of so-called broadband over copper. It gave me around 40kb/s on a good day. That Internet connectivity has that speed limit, but work/s/ed well, carrying telephone at the same time, and depending on filtering the audio/HF signals to separate them from the mega frequency of the broadband signal.

HOWEVER as I was told (eventually) by PlusNet's actual cogniscenti, that this arrangement cannot sustain a digital telephone service. I do not ACTUALLY know why or what has to be done, but the arrangement simulates a fibre service, but over copper. And that is what I now have. HOWEVER no local wiring changes were made, so maybe a PlusNet engineer might read this and clarify the real principles!"

Well, I admit to being baffled! "broadband over copper" sounds like you simply had a telephone landline with an old 40/10 Mpbs limited FTTC circuit, exactly the same as I had before moved to FF. In my case, the local Openreach cabinet reported it as capable of >70 Mbps if unrestricted - more than enough for VoIP AFAIK. So I am unsure why yours couldn't have been converted to a full speed SoGEA line used with VoIP.

Do you know what the maximum available speed was on your line, as reported by the BT Broadband (btwholesale.com) checker? Also, how far your home is from the cabinet?

[#7]

@jab1 

"My suspicion - the OP was one of a very small number who have phone with BT and internet with (in this case) Plusnet.

The two do not communicate - they have no reason to do so.

If a phone connection is ceased, it will, by the very nature of ADSL/FTTC , cease the associated internet service."

OK. Both my telephone and broadband service were with Plusnet.

[#8]

Sadly I think @kaspencer fell into the "well of incompetence and lack of understanding" that seems prevalent across this whole (phone and broadband) industry.

I was in a similar situation (phone with BT and broadband with PN) a while back but had the fortune of a career in IT and Telecoms so knew what the underlying (very unhelpful) Openreach-mandated processes are and extracted myself carefully in good time. The unacknowledged tie-in between supposedly independent contracts with BT (for landline) and an ISP (for ADSL or FTTC) is  a blatant problem that has been widely ignored.

I have tried, maybe not firmly enough, to advise people who come here with similar situations, as have several notable others (you know who you are!). The tragedy is that neither BT retail, PlusNet or any other company are adequately briefing their support/sales staff; one can only assume they just don't care. It's now probably too late anyway, the juggernaut is about to follow the lemmings over the cliff! ☹️

[#9]

---

@kaspencer wrote:

LESSONS TO LEARN
1. Knowledge and Assumption With the best will in the world around 10 PlusNet telephone respondents had not told me that my copper telephone landline was NOT compatible with VOIP - even though that was the point of many telephone consultations. Every one said it was fine, although the VOIP service had to be sourced from outside PlusNet (which I knew anyway).

It depends on how you ask the question. The fact is that you can use VoIP on a Plusnet copper connection, so it is compatible, you just need to have first converted the copper line service to SoGEA.

The fact that you asked 10 times suggests that you were not sure of the accuracy of the answers you were given. With the power of hindsight, if you had explained the question fully or sought confirmation on this forum you would have got the correct answer immediately saving every-one a lot of trouble.

[#10]

If a phone connection is ceased, it will, by the very nature of ADSL/FTTC , cease the associated internet service."

OK. Both my telephone and broadband service were with Plusnet.

It matters not whether the phone & broadband services are with the same or different suppliers!. With an ADSL or FTTC service, the phone number and service is the primary 'asset'. If the primary asset is ceased e.g by moving the number to voip , then the associated broadband service is ceased, thus closing any account. A move to a broadband only (FTTP or SoGEA) service makes a co-ordinated replacement of the phone & broadband with a broadband only account for which the phone is no longer the primary asset.  This leaves the phone number in quarantine and able to be ported to voip (within 30 days) without affecting the broadband service

[#11]

OK. Both my telephone and broadband service were with Plusnet.

It matters not whether the phone & broadband services are with the same or different suppliers!. With an ADSL or FTTC service, the phone number and service is the primary 'asset'. If the primary asset is ceased e.g by moving the number to voip , then the associated broadband service is ceased, thus closing any account. A move to a broadband only (FTTP or SoGEA) service makes a co-ordinated replacement of the phone & broadband with a broadband only account for which the phone is no longer the primary asset.  This leaves the phone number in quarantine and able to be ported to voip (within 30 days) without affecting the broadband service

[#12]

@kaspencer 

You can install a VoIP app on a mobile phone and use the SIP details from the VoIP provider to configure the app.
I have done this for our Sipgate VoIP phones and it works where there is a reasonable mobile internet connection or on Wi-Fi and reverts to the Sipgate voice mail service when an inbound call can not be delivered.


What is the plan to bridge the months until Openreach build the FTTP and it becomes a connection at your home.
Just be aware of Openreach expectations often running to longer than was expected, plus completion of build may still have a month+ of lead time to placing an order and yet more lead time getting a connection activated.

Perhaps Wi-Fi Hotspots or a 4/5G Wi-Fi Router on a monthly rolling contract ? 

[#13]

A possibly somewhat related subject?

Fault Fixing charges today - Plusnet Community