Withdrawl of IPv6 Technical Trial

[#1]

Whilst you're here Paul, can you tell us what Plusnet's plans are with respect to an IPv6 rollout?

[#2]

Working on it.  This thread will be the first to know once we've got some stuff for you.

[#3]

What he said ^^ (best I can do I'm afraid).

[#4]

Thanks. I'm rather disappointed with the (continued) lack of detail but it does at least answer the question.
I've posted the position to the ISOC mailing list as they are making an assessment of ISP's maturity wrt IPv6 support.

[#5]

I suggest anyone expecting Plusnet to implement IPv6 soon would do better looking for a different ISP that does support it. The bean counters will have asked how many extra users it will bring and as a result it will be well down the list of priorities.

[#6]

You could well be right, but equally be wrong. The worst thing about the whole situation is that the complete lack of official information means that we are having to fill in the gaps ourselves.
My line rental saver has just expired and I am withholding renewing it so as not to be trapped with an ISP who can't give me what I want.

[#7]

given the trial success and the fact they can upgrade the tg582n's firmware so it can run 6+4 all be it at a slightly reduced total number of addressed devices....(which you can work around with ipv4 but not with ipv6) I expect the only thing holding them back will be the requirement to host there own ipv6 DNS servers,
it was fine on the trial with them running everything through sixes but realistically until they can support that service in house with dual dns servers then it isn't a viable option for rollout across all there consumer group, add on the fact they would then switch from stateless to statefull in the routers consumers wouldn't be able to setup there routers with any customisation without an internet connection being established in order for the details to be input,
anyone with dyslexia will struggle horrendously if they go down the route of stateless install swapped to statefull after connection is established with the internet service which will up the cost of providing free tech help to such people,
and of course the real problem, nobody wants there skybox, smart tv, printer, etc etc to be directly addressable from the internet, but having ipv6 connectivity within the home network is desirable as it allows LAN traffic to be transferred at a higher rate,
vilefoxdemon might well be on a hiding to nothing with NAT, but something other than a wan address on every device is required.
which leaves a giant headache for the tech's to figure out, quite probably the reason why despite the really good trial results ipv6 is still a no go on a commercial basis

[#8]

IPv6 DNS is trivial. It is a non-issue and should not present any hurdles whatsoever IPv6 rollout. Even if for some reason it did it is straightforward to workaround.
On that basis I shall refrain from commenting on the rest of your post.

[#9]

Quote from: nanotm

given the trial success and the fact they can upgrade the tg582n's firmware so it can run 6+4 all be it at a slightly reduced total number of addressed devices....(which you can work around with ipv4 but not with ipv6) I expect the only thing holding them back will be the requirement to host there own ipv6 DNS servers,

What are you on about ? - just about every DNS appliance made in the last decade already supports IPv6.

Quote from: nanotm

it was fine on the trial with them running everything through sixes but realistically until they can support that service in house with dual dns servers then it isn't a viable option for rollout across all there consumer group, add on the fact they would then switch from stateless to statefull in the routers consumers wouldn't be able to setup there routers with any customisation without an internet connection being established in order for the details to be input, anyone with dyslexia will struggle horrendously if they go down the route of stateless install swapped to statefull after connection is established with the internet service which will up the cost of providing free tech help to such people,

What are you on about ? - every consumer grade router already uses a stateful (SPI) firewall, if anything a stateless firewall is much harder to configure.  If you don't like stateless auto-configuration then DHCPv6 seems a good alternative, and could be pre-configured by the ISP.

Quote from: nanotm

and of course the real problem, nobody wants there skybox, smart tv, printer, etc etc to be directly addressable from the internet, but having ipv6 connectivity within the home network is desirable as it allows LAN traffic to be transferred at a higher rate,

What are you on about ? - true end to end (no NAT) connectivity for streaming, VoIP, and gaming services is exactly what we should be aiming for.

Quote from: nanotm

vilefoxdemon might well be on a hiding to nothing with NAT, but something other than a wan address on every device is required.

What are you on about ? - what difference does it make, your LAN devices that happen to have WAN addresses, are all hidden behind your routers stateful firewall, so unless you specifically override your firewall - nothing can access your LAN devices unless the device has requested an external connection.  There are also "privacy extensions" that can be enabled if anyone was really that bothered.

Quote from: nanotm

which leaves a giant headache for the tech's to figure out, quite probably the reason why despite the really good trial results ipv6 is still a no go on a commercial basis

What are you on about ? - With native IPv6, you enable the tick box in the router, the ISP provides the connection, and all your PCs and other devices will auto-configure (unlike IPv4 where the user has to set gateway + mask + IP + DNS addresses on every device).

[#10]

you misunderstand the concerns

its not about the simplicity of plugging hardware into the home network and having it work
its about the fact that every single item on the home network is listed in a dns server and can be found and accessed, meaning that the settings can be changed, files stolen or deleted etc etc
its also less common for devices to use statefull ipv6 in a home environment (statefull requires a dns service) and even ipv6 dhcp autoconfig uses stateless unless you setup a static address in the router first.
and all of that is completely ignoring the rather large problem that the average consumer unwraps the package plugs it in and turns it on, they don't do anything in terms of changing passwords or customising setup, never mind that I have yet to find a router that has simple tick boxes to allow internet connection on a dynamic dhcp basis regardless of what ipv is being used,  that's normally only possible when someone takes the time to create a static network or is running some form of server, way above the average user's level of thinking and/or ability
whilst most people who post in the thread are at least it literate the large majority of people who have home internet and utilise a wide range of consumer devices have no idea about any of it, indeed its quite common that people will take things back to the shop because they don't work when its not a case of just plugging it in and it working......a problem that's been made worse by the mobile device revolution not better

oh and ipv4 will still be needed for a very long time it isn't going to magically become none existent the second ipv6 rolls out

[#11]

Quote from: nanotm

you misunderstand the concerns

That may be so, but your explanation doesn't bear much resemblance to the previous statements.

Quote from: nanotm

its not about the simplicity of plugging hardware into the home network and having it work

If you say so,  I though that was exactly what you were saying.

Quote from: nanotm

its about the fact that every single item on the home network is listed in a dns server and can be found and accessed, meaning that the settings can be changed, files stolen or deleted etc etc

That is somewhat alarmist, as most devices are password protected, and with PCs it should not be possible to alter settings without specifically logging in with admin privileges.  I'm sure more damage has been done by Windows not shutting down correctly, or a failed Windows update.

Quote from: nanotm

its also less common for devices to use statefull ipv6 in a home environment (statefull requires a dns service) and even ipv6 dhcp autoconfig uses stateless unless you setup a static address in the router first.

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here. 
Most home routers use stateful (SPI) firewalls, so there is protection from the WAN connection. 
LAN connected devices probably don't have stateful firewalls by default,  but while I can see the concern about LAN connectivity,  I can't envisage many insurmountable scenarios, as people are used to installing firewalls on their PCs,  and most other devices (like smart TVs or games consoles) are unlikely to have anything worth hacking.

Quote from: nanotm

all of that is completely ignoring the rather large problem that the average consumer unwraps the package plugs it in and turns it on, they don't do anything in terms of changing passwords or customising setup

I thought Plusnet supplied router have TR-069 enabled, so they are literally plug and play.

Quote from: nanotm

never mind that I have yet to find a router that has simple tick boxes to allow internet connection on a dynamic dhcp basis regardless of what ipv is being used,  that's normally only possible when someone takes the time to create a static network or is running some form of server, way above the average user's level of thinking and/or ability

I was referring to routers that are already connected with IPv4, but also have NATIVE IPv6 capability and an ISP that provides NATIVE IPv6.
Once the PPP connection is established, then on some routers you literally tick a box saying that you want IPv6 enabled in addition to the existing IPv4.

Quote from: nanotm

whilst most people who post in the thread are at least it literate the large majority of people who have home internet and utilise a wide range of consumer devices have no idea about any of it, indeed its quite common that people will take things back to the shop because they don't work when its not a case of just plugging it in and it working......a problem that's been made worse by the mobile device revolution not better

I can't disagree with that.  It is a pity the mobile networks haven't switched to IPv6 as that would simplify mobile data and VoIP connectivity.

Quote from: nanotm

oh and ipv4 will still be needed for a very long time it isn't going to magically become none existent the second ipv6 rolls out

Very true 

[#12]

Quote from: nanotm

its about the fact that every single item on the home network is listed in a dns server and can be found and accessed, meaning that the settings can be changed, files stolen or deleted etc etc

Could you elaborate on this please. Are you saying that all devices on the users LAN will be registered on the ISPs DNS servers?

[#13]

If any of my devices communicate with the external world, then its IPV6 address is "published".
So I can expect its address to be sold on and receive various hacking attempts.
It works like that for email, anyway.

[#14]

Quote from: vilefoxdemonofdoom

If any of my devices communicate with the external world, then its IPV6 address is "published".

So how is that different from anyone on a static IPv4 address ?
- and NO the answer isn't because of NATs ! 

[#15]

Quote from: vilefoxdemonofdoom

If any of my devices communicate with the external world, then its IPV6 address is "published". So I can expect its address to be sold on and receive various hacking attempts. It works like that for email, anyway.

Email is a much more successful avenue for 'hackers' to use because you don't have to bypass any firewalls - you just have to bypass the common sense of the idiot at the keyboard on the other end.
Even if a hacker had a specific IPv6 address he or she wanted to use, they could send all the pings or malformed payloads that they wanted but they'd just get dropped by the CPE router's statefull firewall. Not to mention that Windows machines (the mostly likely device in the consumer's network to be targeted) use privacy extensions by default, so a hacker would only have a half hour window to exploit any such IPv6 address before it is rendered useless.
So in summary, if you're worried about your personal details being stolen, you should be more concerned with phishing, being burgled, or being pick-pocketed on the street.