Pricing/Terms changes - October 2013

[#1]

I'm not too happy about the attempt to force people into having phone as well as broadband (even though I currently have my telephone with Plusnet anyway), I sincerely hope they don't start surcharging the current products in the future for customers who use a different phone provider (though I suspect they will).
I think Plusnet are a great ISP but the home phone is no longer going to offer me the best value.  Too many suppliers already force people into expensive phone line rental (or higher call charges) in order to get good value internet.
I prefer the freedom to 'shop around' for each service individually and get really annoyed when suppliers offer a great deal on one service subject to paying over the odds for another, the fact that the broadband is cheaper if you also have telephone line rental (not to mention new customers have to pay an 'activation fee' for fibre only if they don't have the phone as well) indicates where the greatest profits can be made.
What's to stop an ISP advertising, for example, unlimited FTTC at £10 per month (great advertising headline) but only if you take telephone line rental at £25 (hidden in the 'small print') then charging significantly over the odds for any non-inclusive calls just to boost the profits further?
Just because others do it doesn't mean a 'good honest' supplier should.
As it stands I might well be looking to move my telephone service once my LRS runs out.

[#2]

Quote from: w23

As it stands I might well be looking to move my telephone service once my LRS runs out.

why wait until your line rental runs out?
i complained and got my remaining 4 months refunded, thats 2 i know of now that have got refunded, despite plusnets stance on this matter.

[#3]

Quote

I think you only save £4.49 a month by not having a phone line.

It would be a £7 saving a month - £84 a year.
With the offer I'm taking it will cost (after discounts and TCB etc.) £17 a month.  This is £13 a month cheaper than I'm currently paying Plusnet.

[#4]

Quote from: w23

i complained and got my remaining 4 months refunded, thats 2 i know of now that have got refunded, despite plusnets stance on this matter.

Great isn't it.   I was specifically told that no-one was getting a refund as they don't offer refunds for the LRS.  
Maybe I should phone back and put in a complaint and keep going until I get a refund - or just never come back to Plusnet in the future.

[#5]

Quote from: spraxyt

The part of the email you attached refers to "... updating our terms and conditions1" . In my email note 1 referenced there contains the leaving-related text.

Quote

author=Bob Pullen You appear to have neglected to have captured any of the information in the footer of the email in that screenshot?

Yes, so I see. The software didn’t capture it all as it was in a window, so did not see that last part. I have now done a snapshot of the last part and put a box round the main part.
I will say though, that it is very basic info. It should really explain in much more detail and say about the router as well. It’s not really detailed enough as many on here, have be told they have to pay, when it seems not correct.
Plusnet could put a bit more effort in.

[#6]

Quote from: peterb99

Quote I think you only save £4.49 a month by not having a phone line. It would be a £7 saving a month - £84 a year.

I was using the prices that apply from 1 October, when the broadband only option increases by £2.50 a month.

[#7]

Ah right I see - you are right then.
However, £4.49 is a lot of money a month for something you just don't need.  I've not wanted a phone line for years but been forced into it (when I was last with Virgin the difference between broadband only and phone was only about £2 so I kept the phone.

[#8]

Quote from: Richchad

I have been with PN for many years, it seems very unfair that you can avoid the price increase if you switch to have your phone rental with them. So that means the price increase is nothing to do with the broadband service costing more to operate, as we would all get the increase, but more to do with making extra profit from the Phone side..

Sorry, but I really don't get why people think this is unfair.
You buy multiple products from the same group - and you will often get a discount; but only buy one product and you will have to pay the full price.  Yes they get more of the business and more of the profit for only one admin charge so they can afford to charge you less as an "incentive" to buy both products from them.
Examples:
Gas and electric - buy both from company X and you will get a "dual fuel discount".
Car insurance - have two cars insured with the same company and you will get a discount on the 2nd one from the price they would normally charge.
Holidays - Book a holiday for large group of people and the company will be offering all sorts of discounts such as one person goes free with every X number booked.
Conversely go on holiday by yourself and you just see how much extra you are charged for being on your own - it's called the single person supplement charge.
Then there are the shopping vouchers/coupons/loyalty cards....which are exactly the same thing.  They will be offering you money off in general or off specific products if you continue to shop for further goods in the shop. Exactly the same principle - buy more of your stuff from the shop and get a discount.
Of course when the boot is on the other foot then we find it's the householders wanting discounts from tradesmen don't we!
So when you are having lots of building work done on the house you will expect them to fix the gutters for free while if you went to a seperate roofing company you would have to pay their full price for the job.
Part of the confusion with UK telecoms is that the line rental component is lumped in with the payment for a voice service cost in the UK so the incentive is always to want the phone component.  We really should split them up into 3 components.
1.  Payment for the physical line to your address plus maintenance and system upgrades etc. ( payment ends up at BTOR)
2. Payment for a voice service on that line (pay to your voice phone service retailer)
3. Payment for a data service on that line (pay to your broadband supplier)
We could just as easily lump together 1 and 3 and charge for 2 as a seperate item.  Then broadband charges would soar and the extra for the voice service would be minimal.
It is now easier to see why a company like Plusnet would want to give a discount when all the 3 components were bought from them while would want to charge extra when someone like me comes along and just buys the broadband - I'm a lot of admin work for a small amount for profit.
(and I write too much on a rainy Sunday morning!)

[#9]

The issue is really that Plusnet used to charge one price* for broadband regardless of whether you had their phone service, they then started charging new customers more if they had broadband only and now introduce a surcharge on some products for existing customers who do not take the phone service (at an increased price).  If you are on Value or Extra broadband only your price goes up by £1.50 per month unless you add home phone, if you already have home phone your price goes up by £1.00 or £1.50 depending on call package - none of this looks like a discount.

* Subject to market area of course.
I have different suppliers for gas and electricity even though they both offer a 'discount' for taking both from  the same supplier, it works out cheaper for me that way.

[#10]

Quote from: w23

I have different suppliers for gas and electricity even though they both offer a 'discount' for taking both from  the same supplier, it works out cheaper for me that way.

Yes that needed pointing out.
"Buy two get one free" and all the rest of the similar so called money saving offers/discounts usually have inflated individual prices to make the deal look good. They need very little scrutiny to see that.
The plusnet offers are no different.
I have different suppliers for my phone line and broadband. It's cheaper for me that way.

[#11]

I wonder how long it will be before OFCOM or the OFT jump on these unfair premiums on people who do not want more than one service from a supplier.

[#12]

I doubt if they will as there are plenty of reasons (especially for LLU providers) that can be presented to say that the costs of supply and/or admin are lower with multiple services.
And don't forget that one reason is that the multi-product "tie-in" means people probably change suppliers less, which also reduces costs (increases profits).

[#13]

Surely 'tie-in' is anti-competition?
The best way to stop customers changing suppliers is to stop all these new customer offers and, instead, offer all customers a good value deal.

[#14]

I totally agree w23.
Being on a Market 1 exchange and having to pay more than those on 2 & 3 I definitely feel as though my extra is paying for these new customer offerings. In fact I'm fairly confident that's the case.
I shouldn't be penalised because of where I choose to live.

[#15]

Take this all to the bitter end, and we're nearly there, all these "new customer" offers will virtually destroy any loyal user base.
With such a growing disparity of prices between new offers and standard prices all that will happen is more and more will just change ISP's when their offers run out.
How will ISP's be able to plan ahead with such a changing customer base?
Will customers patience be a thing of the past?