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Useless Plusnet Now ??

Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 23,052
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Why should everything improve? Physics is physics - you are on a very long copper circuit which will be susceptible to electrical interference from the many new gadgets we all use. It might be the case that there are iffy joints on the line, which might not be detected on line tests. 3dB is marginal even in shorter good quality lines.

If FTTC is not available, your only practical alternative might be to switch to a wireless service such as EE 4G.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

stathe
Rising Star
Posts: 795
Thanks: 25
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Not very helpful      Things do improve         I know how  it was     what is it that you suggest  and how do  I do that  ?Huh

Alex
Community Veteran
Posts: 5,500
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Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Put your postcode on here and see what it says.

PlusNet are essentially BT and 'their suppliers' are BT Wholesale.

If it says you can have it, then PlusNet should be able to supply it.

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 2,319
Fixes: 113
Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Hey @stathe

thanks for keeping in touch. @Townman is correct, your line is quite long, 6520 Metres to be exact, which is why we told you to expect speeds between 1.1Mbps and 2.5Mbps when you last re-contracted. Copper lines are also subject to natural degradation over a long period of time.

I've tested your line this afternoon - I'll pop the results below, which show that in terms of speed, your line is performing within estimates, with downstream speeds coming through at 1888Kbps. I can see that in order to increase stability, we've recently changed the profile of your connection, which does come at the expense of some speed. given the line length, for the most part, the line appears to be relatively  stable, though some drops can be seen at the same time during the day. This can indicate some form of regular interference along the line somewhere.

KBD
xDSL Status Check
Circuit ID:   Service ID:  
Telephone NO.:   Test Executed On: 12-01-2022 16:39:31
xDSL Status Test Summary
Sync Status: Circuit In Sync
General Information
NTE Status:   NTE Power Status: PowerOn Bypass Status:  
 
  Upstream DSL Link Information Downstream DSL Link Information
Loop Loss: 43.7 69.0
SNR Margin: 6.1 5.9
Errored Seconds: 144 5
HEC Errors: 0  
Cell Count: 0 0
Speed: 887 1888
 
Maximum Stable Rate (KBPS): 1728 Fault Threshold Rate (KBPS): 1382
Mean Time Between Retrains (Seconds):   Mean Time Between Errors Upstream (Seconds):  
Indicative Line Quality:   Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds):  
Custom Thresholds
MTBR_RED: MTBE_RED:
MTBR_GREEN: MTBE_GREEN:

Copper Line Test
Circuit ID:   Service ID:  
Telephone NO.:   Test Executed On: 12-01-2022 16:40:33
Status: Pass MFL: OK OR Test ID: dys00556app04:576375636
Test Outcome: Line Test OK DTR: DS01
Copper Test Details
  A to E B to E
Capacitance: 403 NanoFarad 400 NanoFarad
DP Line Length Estimate: 6520 Metres DN Line Length Estimate: 6540 Metres
Celerity: 75.3 dB Line Loss: 64.55 dB
Line Stability: Stable
Fault Report Advised: N
Service Level: 2
BRAGOutcome: Long Lines
Faceplate: Not Detected
Radius
 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
Townman
Superuser
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??


@stathe wrote:

Not very helpful      Things do improve         I know how  it was     what is it that you suggest  and how do  I do that  ?Huh


I can understand that hard truths and facts might not be seen as helpful when they are not want you want to hear.  However, the bottom line is your telephone line is 6.5km long.  You might find this informative - Broadband Speed Checker - ADSL and distance - essentially ADSL is just about viable up to 5.5km and ADSL2 up to 6km both shorter than your line.  I was going to ask @adam945 if forcing ADSL(1) might help - but not at 6.5km.

This sentence is key: "Any signal that is carried through the wires is affected by ResistanceCapacitance and Inductance. These characteristics of the copper wire directly contribute to the noise on the line and their effect is greater the longer the line.".  Also if somewhere along your line, it runs beside VDSL circuits, it will pick up cross talk - something which increases the greater the number of coadjacent VDSL circuits.  So whilst you might not see any changes, you have no knowledge of how the change of the environment elsewhere might impact your service.  As I said - physics is physics and you cannot change that.

Changing the line profile to run at 3dB might make the synch speed a little faster, but probably less stable and certainly with a higher error rate.  A higher error rate will entail a higher data retransmission rate and thereby a lower effective throughput speed.  With lines at the margin as yours is (predicated by the distance between you and the exchange) a slower sync speed might well deliver a higher data throughput speed because of the reduction in errors and retransmission.  Sometimes you can get more usable speed with a lower sync rate.

What should you do?

  • Switch to FTTC if is available
  • Investigate the options for mobile borne internet (4G)
  • Move closer to the exchange
  • Accept that ADSL at 6.5km is barely viable and sometimes you will be disappointed

As someone has mentioned, copper does "degrade" over time, notably the joints ... if an actual fault can be identified, it might be possible to have BTOR inspect and remake all of the joints on your line - but that could be a long haul.  Do you know how far you are from the green cabinet?  If you are fairly close to the green cabinet then you might have a short d-side circuit which would be a much smaller challenge to have inspected.

@adam945 is a d-side swap a viable approach here?

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

pvmb
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 579
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Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??


@stathe wrote:

Why should things be worse now than they used to be ?? Everything should improve 


Well, where I live, neither ADSL or terrestrial RF reception is improving over time. Quite the opposite.

stathe
Rising Star
Posts: 795
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Unfortunately changing my profile has actually degraded my speed, I have been here before and  I have been complaining on and off for years usually with improvements  Seem now to be surrounded by SOME doom and  gloom merchants  I cant move I have been here for 86 years also been with Plusnet for a long time and dont want to spend more money Further to my original query why should I disconnect every morning to retain what I have 

pvmb
Aspiring Pro
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Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

IMO, with Line Attenuation: 69.5 dB, 44.0 dB you won't be getting a reliable service at 3 dB SNRM, which is why you are now on 6 dB.

Is FTTC available or not in your area? If it is - I am unsure on this matter - then I assume that is the way to go if you need higher speed.

stathe
Rising Star
Posts: 795
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Fibre Not available here or any where near. I was previously for a long time on a lower than six  margin without a problem  why do they not try me at say four or five  This has been discussed a long time ago (years maybe ) here 

Townman
Superuser
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Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

The options are in 3dB steps ... unless you chose to buy a router which is capable of nullifying (and causing problems) with the DLM's management of the line.

What is the issue you are trying to fix here?  Sure raw sync speed might be tweaked a little ... but to what benefit if on such a long line, the disconnection frequency is increased and error retransmissions reduce the effective data transfer rate?  A fast sync rate does NOT assure a faster data transfer rate - sync speed is simply a measure of how fast zeros and ones can be pushed down the line - data transfer rate is how quickly usable zeros and ones can be transferred WITHOUT ERRORS.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

stathe
Rising Star
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Have not had a problem with disconnections in the past just want to have a speed nearer 2 than 1 to enable me to use Meet and What's ap with my family.      and I have had this in the past ,, Without spending too much . I also need to keep my Plusnet email   address  which I have had for a long time and is linked to a number of  things important to my family and myself 

pvmb
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 579
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Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Is your router plugged into the master socket or into an extension socket? Also, what model router do you have?

Some may be better than others under difficult conditions and people here may be able to advise which are best.

adam945
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 2,319
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Registered: ‎01-12-2020

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Hello @stathe

I'd be happy to change your connection profile from "stable" to standard", however this might have a negative affect on the line stability. Do you want me to go ahead?

 

 Adam
 Plusnet Help Team - Leeds
stathe
Rising Star
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Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Master socket

Townman
Superuser
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Posts: 23,052
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Re: Useless Plusnet Now ??

Are there any extensions and if yes how wired and with what kind of cables?

Also as above do you want Plusnet to remove you from the STABLE profile? It is highly probable that you will see more disconnections… which could invoke automatic DLM line management action.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.