Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
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Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 9:06 PM
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Quote from: pieplanter As customer we deal with Plusnet. If, in turn, Plusnet has an issue with one of their suppliers then surely it's up to Plusnet to put the procedures in place to deal with those issues promptly?
Sadly, and it has been said a number of times on this forum, Plusnet has no choice when dealing with a monopoly supplier of the infrastructure.
They can't do the obvious and move their custom to an alternative supplier.
BTOR and BTW have entrenched procedures that their customers are obliged to follow.
To argue with someone who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 9:21 PM
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Quote from: Strat Sadly, and it has been said a number of times on this forum, Plusnet has no choice when dealing with a monopoly supplier of the infrastructure.
Strat, that might well be the case but Plusnet doesn't do itself any favours (in my case anyway) by it's lack of ability to simply keep its customers informed. Let me explain;
- On my support ticket, I've had responses from several technicians; there is no continuity. It's like having 3 BTOR engineers around in two days. They all asked me what they were there for.
- When they eventually get round to it, the responses on my support ticket amount to the regurgitation of graphs and charts and other superfluous data that is meaningless to me. I just want a simple explanation in plain English
- I've asked several questions in my Support Ticket, in this thread in the forum, and in my posts to Bob Pullen in the uk.telecom.broadband newsgroup. They all get ignored
Altogether, I'm afraid it's just a poor show
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 9:31 PM
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The OR engineers having no information isn't Plusnet's fault either because Plusnet do provide it, that is either BTw or OR at fault and various people are trying to discover exactly why.
As for all the different Agents and types of responses, there has been a lot of criticism in this area, and changes could happen. Ask for your ticket to be "Escalated" - post it on the ticket, it's been round the loop enough times now, you will then get just one (more experienced) agent dealing with it, (if and until it goes higher again!).
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 11:21 PM
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Quote from: pieplanter - to everyone out there, on the 'this is only an estimated speed' bandwagon, ...
and
Quote We have to trust and rely on what we are told by the experts
To me it seemed that if one of the experts around here (and there are quite a few, customers & community members alike) told the OP something that wasn't liked, then they got labelled as part of a brigade or bandwagon.
Unfortunately, it's not a good way to inspire those self-same experts to want to help out. It is a shame, because there is a lot of help available in here.
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 11:32 PM
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Quote from: spraxyt
Quote from: pieplanter Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 33.8Mbps and upstream line speed of 5.9Mbps.
The wording of that paragraph leaves a lot to be desired but I've always assumed it means many customers attached to your cabinet receive those speeds. I assume these are those at more normal distances from the cabinet.
It is very abysmal use of the English language - and the meaning becomes even more confusing when prefixed by the sentence that means it isn't available yet (and so consumers can't actually have received *anything* yet).
However, when you put a phone number into that tool, it does give an estimate for your line - and not anyone else's. My assumption is that the estimate is based on data from around the UK for people with similar lines. The estimates for everyone on a cabinet, barring any problems, do alter, and follow the distance from the cabinet - some people will be getting 80/20 estimates while some will be as low as this one is turning out to be. If you use the postcode tool, then you get the range of speeds from the individual lines within that postcode.
Of course, the estimating tool has to start from the right input data - it has to start with the correct idea of cabinet and a rough idea of length, and a few other things about the line, in order to make this prediction. If something has been captured incorrectly within BT's database of lines (such as the length, or that it uses copper instead of aluminium), then it isn't really a bad estimate, or a miscalculated estimate, but one that has been based on incorrect data.
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
20-11-2012 11:42 PM
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Quote from: pieplanter I have been saying for some now that we should pay a bit extra and go to a class provider that can deliver, whatever the problem.
My general experience is that the best provider you can have is one that manages to get Openreach out to you in a speedy fashion when needed - and recognises that is the correct step too. It isn't a commonly-achieved feat
So this...
Quote from: pieplanter It's like having 3 BTOR engineers around in two days.
...is a bit like finding gold in the back garden.
OK, they haven't solved your problem, but it is a very impressive result for *anyone* to get Openreach around that fast, let alone thrice.
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 1:12 PM
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Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 1:49 PM
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Thank you for your reply.
BTOR are coming for an 8am - 1pm appointment slot tomorrow morning. Can you please confirm what they are tasked to do?
Edit:
Okay, on my Support Ticket it says, ...'profile to be hard uncapped so profile is not banded...
I don't know what that means but I'll make sure the BTOR has done it (or says he has) before he leaves.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 2:34 PM
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Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 2:48 PM
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Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 3:29 PM
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Fortunately or unfortunately our cable is underground all the way. As I've said before though, we've already had 4 BTOR engineers do the testing, and some of the things they say they've ascertained is that:
- There are no spares. Following that particular visit the engineer recommended a jointer to bring some spares down, but that never happened
- Cabinet 34 is a much later addition to the network and, I don't think we are routed through it. But I'll check that.
- In another visit the BTOR said there was a 5Mb drop in the line from the distribution point to the master socket in our place (about 20m), but that has not been followed up.
- In the last BTOR visit, when the engineer confirmed 'long line' syndrome (1771m), he said we had a pole outside the back of our house, suggesting that there might be an opportunity for a new, shorter overhead feed to our house, but it appears that is not being followed up.
I would like to think that the engineer that comes tomorrow is one of the same chaps that has been here before but so far it's been 4 different engineers. One of the engineers admitted that the notes left on the system are cr#p, implying that each time they come, they're actually starting all over again.
One thing that has just occurred to me, is to do my own research by knocking up the neighbours to see if anyone has fibre and, if so, what speeds they're getting.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 4:17 PM
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Let me know how you go.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
21-11-2012 8:17 PM
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Quote from: WWWombat I umm'ed and ahhh'ed about whether to ever post on this thread, as I always got the impression that the OP didn't want to hear the truth, but these two bits are so contradictory that it made me laugh...
Quote from: pieplanter - to everyone out there, on the 'this is only an estimated speed' bandwagon, ...
and
Quote We have to trust and rely on what we are told by the experts
To me it seemed that if one of the experts around here (and there are quite a few, customers & community members alike) told the OP something that wasn't liked, then they got labelled as part of a brigade or bandwagon.
Unfortunately, it's not a good way to inspire those self-same experts to want to help out. It is a shame, because there is a lot of help available in here.
I, too, wondered about whether or not it would serve any useful purpose to reply to your post but on reflection, it made me realise that we were straying too far away from the reason why I posted in the first place. Before I expand on that, though, it is only right and proper that I apologise to anyone that took offence to the tone of my posting; that was not my intention .
This whole thread, which I started on the 7th November is only about 'estimated FTTC speed', so the opportunity for anyone to contribute to the subject was there from the very outset. It was 2 days into the thread that @Jaggies posted, '...estimates are just that and can't be taken as Gospel'. To me this sounded like a capitulation so whether or not it was a poor call, I used the 'band wagon' analogy to derail that argument which, it is my view, added nothing to the debate. Here, then, is a precise of why we're still talking about this;
- When I signed up, Plusnet told me that they carried out a line test and that I could expect a speed of 33Mb +/- 1Mb. They called this their estimated speed which, in my mind, I converted to 32 - 34Mb. For the upload speed, I was working to a spread of 4 - 6Mb.
- When Plusnet installed fibre broadband, we initially got 35Mb, which very quickly slipped to 25Mb, then 18Mb, then 10Mb. BTOR told me that this was the result of computer line management.
- Four engineers visits later, BTOR tell me that, at the very best, our line will support 18Mb. The reason for this, they say, is that the length of our line (that is, the copper bit from the 'superfast' cabinet [which I know is referenced P22] to the distribution point near our house) is 1771m and, as a direct consequence, we suffer from what BTOR describes as 'long line' syndrome. In fact, until I am contradicted, I would go one step further and say that, at that distance, our property is not a candidate for 'superfast' broadband; households on ADSL are out-performing us.
- As of today, https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=stable_rate, is still showing 'estimated line speed: 33Mb (Accurate to within +/- 1Mbit)(not +/- 15 or 23Mb) - Checked on 2012-11-12 21:49:20
The evidence thus far is that Plusnet has made a serious error in their calculation of the 'estimated speed'. If that is the case, then I would just like them to come clean (Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed). If they haven't then a simple explanation is fine.
For my last points:
- It worried me a little that, in your original post, you suggested the 'regulars' were not 'inspired' to respond to bolshy posters. To me, that contradicts the community spirit of this forum (everybody could learn) and implied a certain degree of elitism. Fortunately you dispelled that notion in a subsequent post.
- In your post at 23.32, you said that an estimate based on incorrect information wasn't a bad estimate or miscalculated estimate. That made me chuckle. In a pure mathematical sense what you say is true, but as far as the end product is concerned for the end user, it is nothing but a wrong estimate. And they shouldn't be expected to tolerate it. So, thank you for supporting my cause!
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
22-11-2012 8:45 AM
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Quote from: chrispurvey They've been tasked to remove the banding on the line and also find the cause for your line to be banded in the first place and resolve this.
Let me know how you go.
@chrispurvey
The BTOR engineer has just rang to say that he can't remove the banding because of the length of the line (1771m). Consequently he's switching the appointment to an 'underground' engineer to find a spare pair from somewhere. The objective, he said, is to shorten the line length and improve line quality. (We were here a week ago.)
Hopefully, he said, the 'underground' engineer will make it here today.
Re: Transparency, please, with estimated FTTC speed
22-11-2012 9:12 AM
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One thing I just noticed in the speedtest result you sent me in a PM, the speed was faster than the IP profile. Now this can happen now and again but you should not see it occur all the time. If it did, I'd want the DSLAM checking out.
Run the BT "Diagnostic" speedtest periodically http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ and/or http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ . This latter one requires JRE installed. Which ever Diagnostic Test you use, you have to wait 10 minutes between tests and maximum 3 per hour.
Edit: As far as the bit about "removing the banding", I'm not sure if the right terminology is being used, I'm not familiar enough with what Line Profiles and settings available now on Fibre. (I'd need to read all the fibre trial stuff!). In effect what seems to be needed is removing the effects of DLM so that if your speed profile drops because of an intermittent fault or errors it promptly goes back up again once the problem disappears.
(Note there is a difference between the meaning of LIne Profile and the IP (speed) Profile, although the latter does depend upon the former, and I'm not sure if I've got my terminology precisely right!).
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