Intermittent BB outage

[#1]

@longshanks67 

Theories are all very well but maybe the event log will help explain what is going on.

It's not difficult to find on the hub two, this is where you'll find it

Click on Export the file goes to Downloads; attach the csv file to a reply post. Best performed on a PC.

[#2]

Hello

Event log as requested

Thanks

[#3]

@longshanks67 

thanks for sharing the event log.

You are not get that many DSL Link disconnects

18:09:29, 01 Aug. DSL Link Down: duration was 191430 seconds
12:34:27, 07 Jul. DSL Link Down: duration was 431677 seconds
12:30:05, 02 Jul. DSL Link Down: duration was 329296 seconds
14:19:18, 28 Jun. DSL Link Down: duration was 60038 seconds
21:36:05, 27 Jun. DSL Link Down: duration was 344199 seconds

Up to 17th July the connection was not very stable.

19:37:38, 29 Jul. WAN connection WAN2_INTERNET_PTM disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]

I would expect the light was a Solid Orange until around

21:23:40, 29 Jul. WAN connection WAN2_INTERNET_PTM connected

You had another lengthy disconnect

17:40:27, 01 Aug. WAN connection WAN2_INTERNET_PTM disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER]

18:12:24, 01 Aug. WAN connection WAN2_INTERNET_PTM connected

Since the 1st has there been any further failure?

A thought for cause

Headend failure or maintenance

Are you aware of the location of the green cabinet, it is in full sun all day?

Maybe electrical noise on the line.Turn something on in your house at these times?

[#4]

Hello dan the van

Thanks for your help, there has been no outage during daylight hours since the ist Aug, the green cabinet which serves our property is indeed in full sunlight all day. As far as I know there is no electrical noise in the house.

Yes the hub light was/ is a solid orange during these outages.

Regards

Brian

[#5]

An external intermittent fault is just that - intermittent and therefore has a high possibility of not being found when looked for.

There are two potential resolutions for this...

1. A lift and shift of the d-side circuit to a spare pair of a better quality if one exists
2. Request that all joints on the existing pair are recrimped

It would also be helpful to eliminate any aluminium segments in the "copper" pair.

Is this still a FTTC service?  If yes, there might be more merit in trying to treat this as a TELEPHONE service issue.  Is the line quiet?  Is there a clear dial tone? Can you dial out?

In some situations the broadband faults testing and telephone faults testing detect different issues, especially those related to the copper circuit.

Finally if this is FTTC there are conditions where a call on the circuit can drop the broadband service - it matters not that there is no phone plugged in / you do not use the voice service.

[#6]

@Townman 

If you care to look through the event log there are very few DSL link down messages.

I think the concern was about the failures date/time I covered in my previous post, which points to a backend issue.

WAN connection WAN2_INTERNET_PTM disconnected.[ERROR_NO_CARRIER] with no associated DSL Link Down.

Repeated "PPP: Sending PADI" messages, those messages are not present if the DSL connection is down.

This could indeed be a noisy line; the DSL Line Up messages are always round 

DSL Link Up: Down Rate=40000kbps, Up Rate=9995kbps; SNR Margin Down=11.7dB, Up=10.1dB

Maybe this is a Unlimited Fibre Product 40/10

Hopefully something has been fixed.

[#7]

Thanks Dan the van 

I have two open reach engineer home visits in the last two months a new master socket fitted I have a new hub 2 fitted testing ect.

Still it persists. All I can do is keep reporting it too Plusnet.

[#8]

Hello townman

The phone line is clear with a normal dial tone.

The rest of your reply is a bit technical for me I hope the open reach engineers check all.

Regards

[#9]

@longshanks67 

It is worth try dialling 17070 and select 2 when the Hub's light is solid Orange to see if there is noise when the issue exisits.

You are telling plusnet the Hub light is solid Orange when you speak with them?

[#10]

Thanks for that, something learned. 

[#11]

@Dan_the_Van 

The symptoms are as you suggest confusing.  Solid orange indicates no sync, however as you rightly observe in the absence of xDSL there would be no PADI packets.

At the time of doing the QLT @longshanks67 reports a quiet line which would reflect the fault being intermittent.  Would be helpful to repeat the QLT when the router shows solid orange.

This potentially has the hallmarks of REIN / SHINE RFI - sometimes bad enough to inhibit establishment of xDSL, other times marginal to inhibit establishment of PPP over “operational” xDSL.  Iffy joints can make a circuit more susceptible to REIN.  RFI might be indicated on the lines history but is not usually a detectable problem in the line test … and there’s a limited amount that BTOR can do for RFI issues.

”External fault” does however point to something detectable.

The connection example you pulled from the log is interesting exactly 40/10 with elevated SNRM.  Either the line has been provisioned on 40/10 and the elevated SNRM indicates additional headroom or it’s been banded due to repeated fault conditions 

Really could do with some deep insight from one of the gurus - @Marsh or @Gandalf - without whom we are a tad blind for issues like this.

@James_B can we get some tech guys back in this space please?

[#12]

Hi @longshanks67. 

I have sent you a private message to get this looked into further. 

Speak soon, 

Katie

[#13]

---

@Townman wrote:

Really could do with some deep insight from one of the gurus - @Marsh or @Gandalf - without whom we are a tad blind for issues like this.

@James_B can we get some tech guys back in this space please?

---

If Plusnet staff do get a chance to look at this, can they report back here whether @longshanks67 can get FULL FIBRE ?

Currently @longshanks67  is still on FTTC with phone service, and will be forced to change products within the next 3 or 4 months due to the Openreach PSTN retirement, and will need to port their landline phone number to a VoIP phone service as his wife wants to keep the home telephone service.

If full fibre is an option, and the upgrade was done now, then fixing the broadband and phone at the same time would be the best outcome and minimise disruption, with these new services not needing upgrading for another 20 years and @longshanks67  would be setup for life.

Upgrading to FULL FIBRE and VoIP phone would -

• Immediately and permanently fix the intermittent FTTC broadband problem with a much more reliable connection
• Porting the landline number to VoIP, would secure the landline number from being lost, ahead of the PSTN deadline
• Upgrading to VoIP will give clearer calls, lower costs, and flexible solutions for call handling and answering
• Having full fibre installed now, would mean that you won't be forced to do it around 2030 when you're another 4 years older and less able to cope with the changes.

[#14]

@Baldrick1 

There is a deal of very relevant background in the associated thread here - https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/Problem-with-my-BB-outages/m-p/2051747#M376399 - is there merit in merging that with this to keep the whole saga in one place?

@longshanks67 

From the disconnected story line, I see you have a Hub 1 router.  I suggest that there is a good deal of merit in reverting to that router and acquiring the BTHH5 version of router stats.

Router stats is an exceedingly useful tool for monitoring the behaviour of problematic lines, it presents graphically a real time view of the state of the link.  It does not work with the Hub Two but does work with the Hub One which is a re-branded BTHH5a.  See the link below for router stats.

In passing (from the earlier history) "it was working when the engineer left ... and later it was not" is classical symptoms of an intermittent fault and a presumption that there is only one cause of the issues.  Dicky line faults are notorious to resolve, especially if only one-way testing is done on exit.  I have seen lines which test clear from the home, but test faulty from the exchange.  Test from the exchange on exit is not always performed and even if it is, it simply means that no fault was found when tested, not that there are no faulty joints.

[#15]

Thanks  

But just too correct you I have a new hub 2.