Installing a second ONT and the risk of a migration order happening instead.

[#1]

I’ve recently had an FTTP install with Plusnet and now they’re ready for it my parents also want to have their own FTTP installed as well.

However, we live in the same house so will require two ONT’s and two separate FTTP connections coming into the house.

My parents don’t want to go with Plusnet and have contacted a different ISP to have their new line installed.

In doing so their ISP raised the possibility of Openreach messing up and placing a migration order for my Plusnet line rather than for a new install order for a second line and ONT.

This has me concerned. My main concern being that if Openreach do mess things up and migrate my connection away from Plusnet instead of installing a second line not only will I end up losing my internet but I could then end up getting charged a lot of money in the process for breaching my still 22 months to go 24 month contract.

So what I was wondering was if it’s possible to put some sort of hold or lock on my Plusnet connection to prevent it from being migrated away without my direct permission to Plusnet, similar to how domain names can be locked and protected from being stolen away?

Even if it’s a temporary thing for a month or two, that would be helpful and give peace of mind.

Can something like this be done? I really don’t want to risk having to deal with a mess like this where by I’m dealing with two different companies that can potentially just point the finger at the other while having a third company that are the ones really at fault I can’t directly talk to, all the while I end up suffering the financial consequences for someone else’s mistake.

If a lock can’t be placed how would Plusnet deal with the situation? Would it be recognized and accepted as Openreaches mistake and I would simply need to wait for the line to be migrated back to Plusnet without needing to pay for the remaining 22 months all in go and continue to pay as I normally would each month or would Plusnet not care and take up the position the contract was broken and that I supposedly migrated away and so will need to pay for the remaining months all in one go regardless of it being a mistake I had no control over?

It boggles my mind that this seemingly can happen without me giving authorisation to Plusnet first and that Openreach are able to make this mistake.

[#2]

You mignt want to read through this https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4729916-troubles-ordering-a-second-fttp-service.html

[#3]

I'm not aware of any "locks" that can be added.

In the xDSL world, the safety measure for this is the the losing provider (Plusnet in this case) should email you telling you that an order to move your line away has been placed, and what your Early Termination Fees would be, and saying to contact them if you don't wish to leave.  You'd then have a period of time up to 10 days (I say up to as the entire process is 10 days, but the notification period might be shorter to give time for the rest of the process to happen).

I think the same safeguards are in place for FTTP, but I don't recall hearing much about them yet.  That may because few people (or any) have had issues with other people "accidentally" taking over the FTTP connection that it hasn't been raised.

[#4]

Ok, thanks for letting me know there should be a system in place to alert me if a migration order comes through by mistake. Slightly more reassured now.

[#5]

I think the situation MAY be more complicated than that. Openreach seem to not want to install 2 ONT's at the same premises. They will (apparently) change the order for the 2nd installation, to replace the existing single port ONT with a 4 port. Problem is that the big ISP's ordering systems cant handle a 4 port ONT and so will cancel the order.

[#6]

I think (though could be talking rubbish!) the reason for that is that the ports on the CBT (the bit where the fibre to each premise is plugged into on the pole or underground chamber) are assigned to each property during the planning stage, so there may not be any "spare" to give to a premise that already has fibre.  A 4 port ONT only has 1 incoming fibre.  That may account for that.

The issue is this is all relatively new and these circumstances are fairly unusual, so many people (including the CSC staff)won't have come across it before and know what to do.

[#7]

the reason for that is that the ports on the CBT (the bit where the fibre to each premise is plugged into on the pole or underground chamber) are assigned to each property during the planning stage

I've seen posts both for and against that situation!. I suspect only OR know what their current plan would be for multiple FTTP connections. In this case, if OR decided to replace the single port ONT with a 4 port, the PN connection would PROBABLY be ok since it would remain on port 1 (I assume). The problem would be that the 2nd suppliers ordering system couldnt cope with a service on anything other than port1.

[#8]

The CBT that serves my property has 8 ports - to serve 7 houses (all of whom have FTTP installed).

Brian

[#9]

When contacting the other ISP about having 2 ONT’s this is what they told us “I have just checked BT systems to see if there is available network space for a second ONT they do say a new ONT can be ordered”

I would hope this means that both the ISP is able to support it and that Openreach can do it. Otherwise what’s the point in seeing if Openreach can do it if they themselves can't?

The whole street and main street we're connected to just went live and none of my neighbors have gotten full fiber yet. It’s very much a Virgin dominated street by about 90% I would guess. I used the Virgin postcode checker to see who has and hasn’t got Virgin down our street

The pole has a black box that I think can support either 6 or 8 lines, it’s a little hard to see. My line is the only one going to it so I’m confident it’s got the space for another line to be installed to it.

That’s assuming I understand what it is you're all talking about.

[#10]

When contacting the other ISP about having 2 ONT’s this is what they told us “I have just checked BT systems to see if there is available network space for a second ONT they do say a new ONT can be ordered”

That's more or less what the BT Wholesale checker says, you can check it yourself https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome put in the postcode and select the correct address from the drop down.

For my property which already has an FTTP service is says the same

ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.

I hope I'm wrong in your case, but From my reading of the Thinkbroadband thread, when they get an order for the 2nd connection, Openreach decide unilaterally to replace the ONT with a 4 port instead of installing a 2nd Fibre. That then screws up most ISP's systems as they cant handle a 4 port ONT

[#11]

Well now you’ve gotten me stressing. Thanks

Surely if they know it causes problems then they would have done something to stop the problem occurring by now, even if it’s to simply cancel the order altogether?

[#12]

@chaoticmess 

It is not the number of connections currently using the CBT but the number of houses it has been installed to serve.

If the pole serves 8 houses and the CBT has 8 ports then there is no capacity - even if only one is in use at the moment.

Brian

[#13]

Surely if they know it causes problems then they would have done something to stop the problem occurring by now, even if it’s to simply cancel the order altogether?

Why, the Openreach systems can cope with it. If the ISP's automated ordering systems can't then that's their problem not OR's.

The Thinkbroadband thread seems to imply that some of the smaller ISP's can cope with it.

[#14]

Having just done a btwholesale check I get "ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered" as well.

However, reading the last few replies to the thinkbroadband thread they seemed to get a second ONT installed without any problems in the end?

"Hey everyone, Thought I’d update the thread and say the second ONT was installed early yesterday morning with zero issues and a fast service from zen"

So maybe Openreach have figured things out now?

It’s all a little bit too late now anyway as I’ve already placed the order.

I just got an email that said “I can confirm that your order is processing as a New Install.” So I’d like to think that’s a positive sign.

Just have to cross my fingers and wait now I guess.

[#15]

I just got an email that said “I can confirm that your order is processing as a New Install.” So I’d like to think that’s a positive sign.

Lets hope so.