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safeguard

w23
Pro
Posts: 6,347
Thanks: 96
Fixes: 4
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: safeguard

Quote from: Townman
inhibition of reconfiguring client platforms

In 'plain (simple) English' I guess that translates to 'locking down the kid's devices'.
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 23,909
Thanks: 10,131
Fixes: 174
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: safeguard

In plain simple English, it is inhibition of reconfiguring anything which can be altered to avoid the controls implemented elsewhere.  "Lock down" could mean anything or nothing.
However peoples expectation is that the responsibility for managing what THEIR children access on the internet is SOMEONE ELSE's responsibility.  Someone else can assist to implement some levels of inhibition, but ultimately the controls need to be within the home, both technical and non-technical.
Given that so many access platforms are portable, if parents want real meaningful control, such controls need to be on the children's devices and not capable of being altered.  PlusNet's Safegurad is not going to do anything for parents when their children take their smart phone down to the local coffee shop and jumps on another network to access whatever they seek.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: safeguard

I think the point that w23 was trying to make is that this -
Quote from: Townman
As implied by OJ, to truly lock down access, inhibition of reconfiguring client platforms is an essential part of the solution.

is rather a lot of techno-babble that would not be easily understood by anyone without IT knowledge, which will probably include a very significant number of parents.
In your last post, the first part of the sentence "Given that so many access platforms are portable," would be less confusing if you'd said something along the lines of "Given that children have smart phones and tablets that are obviously portable,"
Whilst the remainder of the paragraph makes it clear to those with some technical knowledge, after that first bit, a lot with no technical knowledge would give up as their eyes glazed over.
w23
Pro
Posts: 6,347
Thanks: 96
Fixes: 4
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: safeguard

@Townman,
I guess most people are more like our household, nobody would know what you meant if you said 'client platform', they have 'devices' (PCs, Laptops, Tablets, Phones).
'Inhibition of reconfiguring' is also a bit of a mouthful for most people, 'lock-down' in this context is usually understood to mean preventing access to various settings, your posts are usually technically excellent but sometimes a bit 'over the head' of the typical forum user, my post was meant to clarify (even 'dumb down a bit') for the less technically minded your otherwise excellent information.  Hope that makes sense!
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
Townman
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 23,909
Thanks: 10,131
Fixes: 174
Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: safeguard

W23,
Thanks for the kind way of putting things.  In my background being precise has always been important to avoid ambiguity or creating wrong (unachievable) expectations.  May be there is a need to try to be more generic on the forums?  Where my mind was at on this matter is it is not simply a matter of having restrictive settings, but having them implemented in a way which cannot be changed.  Things can be locked down, but still be capable of being readily unlocked, hence the thought of being inhibited of being reconfigured.
For me there is a difference between simply being locked down to prevent accidental undesirable activity and configured so as to prevent circumvention of such lock downs.  If parents want real reassurance, they need to do much more than is being offered here: the protection needs to be on the device used by the child, not in their home network, be that their router or their ISPs network.  For as soon as the device is moved out of that environment - a friend's home, public wifi or plain 3G - the exposure to the perceived risk returns unabated.
It is for those reasons I have constantly suggested that ISP safe guards are no safe guard to the perceived problems.  For parents to believe otherwise is not a sound expectation.  Unfortunately in dumbing everything down - simple hassle free internet connectivity - devices do not have the facilities to deliver the desired controls.  The right answer is properly configured device based firewalls.  Unfortunately configuring those properly requires skill - a level of skill I'll confess to not having at an adequate level.
The only other way that such protection could be universally implemented 'out there' would be for all Internet access (from wherever, provided by whoever) to be completely locked down so that the restrictions are applied by blocking at IP address level.  That would negate DNS circumvention or proxy tactics to get around the restrictions.  In short someone out there would need to decide what we all can and cannot access.
Reading between the lines of Chris' post, safeguard is being delivered using BT's "safe" DNS servers.  If the address you ask for is deemed to be "bad" the IP address is not returned.  If you know the IP address you can still reach the content.  If you change the DNS server the protection is lost.  The method of implementation sets the restriction at a household level - even parents will be restricted to what they set as suitable for the youngest member of the household, but only when accessing from within the household.
For what it's worth, I'd be very happy to learn that my concerns are wrong and that the implementation is actually far better than I fear.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

w23
Pro
Posts: 6,347
Thanks: 96
Fixes: 4
Registered: ‎08-01-2008

Re: safeguard

I suspect your concerns are exactly correct.
I did manage to set my son's PC so he could only get DNS from the router (and that uses OpenDNS with parental controls), this was fine until I joined the IPv6 trial (and IPv6 didn't have the same protection from OpenDNS) so, even when we get things right there are new things coming along to spoil our efforts.  Lips_are_sealed
Call me 'w23'
At any given moment in the universe many things happen. Coincidence is a matter of how close these events are in space, time and relationship.
Opinions expressed in forum posts are those of the poster, others may have different views.
majnu
Grafter
Posts: 45
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎14-04-2015

Re: safeguard


This was brought to my attention on another site when I noticed that I could not access gaming sites and was having a horrible time playing multiplayer games. Someone said that Safeguard even though turned off had specific categories which were blocked by default such as gaming, porn and hate crimes.
I unticked everything, saved and rebooted by ac66u but yet my online gaming experience is bad and the only way I can really check that this is turned off and working is by typing in pornhub into the URL which is blocked.

MattyC
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Plusnet Alumni (retired)
Posts: 3,201
Fixes: 46
Registered: ‎10-04-2014

Re: safeguard

Hi there,
There is a unique standalone problem with PornHub that we are in the process of investigating. Let me assure you that it isn't Safeguard related.
If the site is blocked, then you should come across a Plusnet looking splash screen, does this happen at all? Safeguard most certainly wouldn't make online gaming harder.
Matty
ex-Plusnet staffer. Any posts after 28/07/2017 aren't on behalf of Plusnet
mexicano
Rising Star
Posts: 187
Thanks: 6
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎17-07-2010

Re: safeguard

I have just tried to log in to safeguard and it says that the username or password is incorrect. I went into it a while ago but I want to re-check the settings. Any ideas what I am doing wrong?
Also as Marty brought pornhub in his message, I just tried that too and got this on the screen: Any more news on this?
Network Error (tcp_error)
A communication error occurred: ""
The Web Server may be down, too busy, or experiencing other problems preventing it from responding to requests. You may wish to try again at a later time.
For assistance, contact your network support team.
Eserim
Rising Star
Posts: 388
Thanks: 17
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: safeguard

Hi - I've just discovered SafeGuard and wanted to put it to the test.
I was happy that Porn was blocked - I tried a site - I got the PlusNet screen, I unblocked it for an hour, yet over two hours later it still appears unblocked ( I do actually want it blocked all the time, but this was a good test)
Also, some sites don't throw the plusnet screen but a SSL error page instead.
Cheers
Eserim
PS - Is there a list of "dummy" sites that fall into each category and ONLY one category?  OpenDNS has http://www.internetbadguys.com/ as a test site.
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: safeguard

I expect the "two" hours is a bit of an approximation Wink
ffox
Pro
Posts: 577
Thanks: 137
Registered: ‎08-06-2011

Re: safeguard

Quote from: mexicano
I have just tried to log in to safeguard and it says that the username or password is incorrect. I went into it a while ago but I want to re-check the settings. Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

I have the same trouble using Auto Login.  I can get in all right via a different browser and logging in manually.
I think this is a bug which needs fixing.
tdarch
Newbie
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎18-11-2015

Safeguard Issues!!

Sorry NOT impressed!
When I joined I opted OUT of Safeguard.  No problem
Over the last few days our connection has been as flaky as heel resulting in the routeing resetting itself time and time again.  (May or may not be the cause)
Last night Safeguard kicked it, blocking pretty much everything.
So I go to the Safeguard section and click turn off the damned thing.
Oh no it tells me "Sorry we have a problem and cant currently safe your changes, please try later"
So I have, several times over several hours and still get the same message.
Yes I have restarted my router, yes I have cleared my cache, yes I have reset PC, all to no avail.
So what the hell is going on, as it is blocking sites and VPNs that I need for work, PN is now coasting me money!
Answers please!
NoSafeguard
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-02-2016

Re: safeguard

The Safeguard nonsense is giving me a lot of pain and unless you fix it I`m off to another ISP !!
I switched it OFF last year .YOU have switched it ON AGAIN.
I switched it OFF again and 15 hours later it is still blocking a perfectly legal site.
The page says it is OFF.
I have reloaded pages,deleted cookies,changed browsers,restarted computer.
It is ridiculous that after 15 hours it still says the page is blocked.
Remove safeguard from my connection completely and entirely !
Oldjim
Resting Legend
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 741
Fixes: 63
Registered: ‎15-06-2007

Re: safeguard

which site are you having problems with