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Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: deekay
My apolgies if this has been asked before, but I can't find it.
I use Linux and regularly download files of Linux programs which are some 700-800MB long. It is, of course, perfectly legal to download them.
However, what is to prevent Plusnet saying "He has downloaded a large file, so it must be an illegal download of some music or video. Let's add his name to the list to send to ACS Law."
In other words, can Plusnet always be 100% certain that what is downloaded is illegal, or are they just guessing?
As someone who has never downloaded anything which is not legitimate, it is very worrying that I may be wrongly put on this ACS Law list.
Keith

We don't pick anyone out, and we don't proactively send information on alleged copyright infringement to anyone.
More importantly, we don't monitor for people downloading large files.
As is stands what you do with your internet connection is entirely up to you, as long as you're not breaching our terms and conditions.
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Just to update re the Identity Protection piece, we'll be picking this up over the next few days (likely by phone so we can answer any questions and allay any concerns). 
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: A
I don't believe that Plusnet were obliged (or permitted) to pass hundreds of private details onto BT "for subsequent processing" due to any legal obligation (real or imagined) between Plusnet and ACS:Law.

I'm not a lawyer, but we are part of the BT Group, so as a result the legal team for the group represent us in legal matters.
brownb2
Grafter
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎11-11-2009

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: Steve
Quote from: Barry
I, for one, totally agree that Plusnet should start charging from hereon out.
B.
Me aswell.

You're both plonkers. ACS Law or whoever is solictor du jour will just add it on to the extortion demands, instead of £500 it will be £600!  The same will go for the costs of the court case if it makes it that far.
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎12-07-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: foxtrck
[Pursuing payment for details is actually a good thing as stated previously in this thread as it deters Law firms from asking for such details.

I couldn't disagree more. It may deter firms from applying, but doesn't seem to have done so so far as Sky and other do charge. The minute PN starts turning a penny of profit out of supplying names they open themselves to charges of profiteering, and furthermore have a distinct incentive to keep co-operating and not to contest any orders. I'd rather the deterrent was a combativeness ISP doing the right thing by its users than a reduction in the law forms profit margin.
brownb2
Grafter
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎11-11-2009

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: deekay
My apolgies if this has been asked before, but I can't find it.
I use Linux and regularly download files of Linux programs which are some 700-800MB long. It is, of course, perfectly legal to download them.
However, what is to prevent Plusnet saying "He has downloaded a large file, so it must be an illegal download of some music or video. Let's add his name to the list to send to ACS Law."
In other words, can Plusnet always be 100% certain that what is downloaded is illegal, or are they just guessing?
As someone who has never downloaded anything which is not legitimate, it is very worrying that I may be wrongly put on this ACS Law list.
Keith

I wouldn't worry too much - ACS Law were making the demands for people not Plusnet giving them. I'd expect a lot of people download large ISO files regularly that why there is a 60GB quota. I usually get service packs, Ubuntu, 100MB+ downloads (games/apps/Adobe Reader) etc. Now the uploads are probably a different matter but I doubt Plusnet would be so evil...  I mean why would they go out of their way to do something like that? I think Hanlon's Razor best describes Plusnet:
Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
brownb2
Grafter
Posts: 38
Registered: ‎11-11-2009

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: Mand
More importantly, we don't monitor for people downloading large files.

But are you monitoring large uploads? I guess you might be because that might affect your bills...
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎05-04-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: brownb2
But are you monitoring large uploads? I guess you might be because that might affect your bills...

No, we don't monitor them either. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but the question specifically referred to downloads, so I answered accordingly.
watching
Grafter
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎18-08-2010

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: watching
Quote from: Mand
Fletch said in his post we'd be resisting any future requests for information.
We haven't yet provided any information in relation to the Gallant Macmillan order as it hasn't been granted yet.

It goes without saying that it hasn't been granted yet. Your customers don't want it granted. You customers want you to force the evidence to be examined in a court of law. Once it's been granted - TOO LATE!
I'll ask again. Are Plusnet going to contest the application for a court order on 4th October (the same application that they previously failed even to show up at, despite assuring customers that they'd have someone there).
Oh, and don't send the work experience boy again.

Quote from: Mand
There's no need to shout. Wink
The honest answer is I don't know who will be attending on Monday, and I won't be able to tell you until tomorrow, as it's after 10pm and I'm at home.

Quote from: Mand
I do not know the answer as to who is preparing, or what representation there will be, but I am aware that this is the biggest remaining important point to be answered in this thread.
Rest assured, when I know the answer, so will you. Smiley

It is very nearly 24 hours since this question was asked extraordinarily plainly. It is now 14 working hours until Chief Master Winegarten sits in his chamber to decide if to order the release of hundreds more Plusnet customers to exploitative lawyers. We all know that the evidence cited is flawed and unreliable. Without a sound contest to the application on the part of Plusnet, CMW will have no party legally able to counter the arguements of the applicant.
Plusnet need to stop playing games. Those that have seen the emails will know that the letters of claim sent by lawyers in this speculative invoicing scheme are massively distressing to many and have driven some to depression and even to considering suicide. This is no joking matter.
Plusnet, you're either content to see this exploitation or you're not.
It's 14 hours until hundreds more of your customers are, at your whim, caused great distress and emotional suffering. Alternatively you can choose to act - as you should have done years ago when this matter first came to your attention, and regain some credibility.
The press and the country will be watching you Monday. It's time you stopped the games and nonsense.
Are you going to mount a determined and professional contest to the application on Monday?
If you don't, be prepared for the fallout. As well as the emotional impact on those whose details are given away by you, that will also be the enormous media impact of the story and the loss of a LOT of your customer base.
No more delays - tell it like it is. It should NOT take 24 hours to make this statement.
zubel
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,793
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎08-06-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Just as a thought - it might not be prudent for Plusnet to announce their intentions in advance?
The proof of the pudding will be in whether anyone attends the hearing on Monday

B.
dazco
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎30-09-2010

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Here is an article some of you may find an interesting read regarding the upcoming court case
http://www.wiredvc.com/gallant-3macmillan44-to-follow-acslaw-route/
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎12-07-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: watching
It is very nearly 24 hours since this question was asked extraordinarily plainly.... snip
...No more delays - tell it like it is. It should NOT take 24 hours to make this statement.

Quite.
You've been here before a dozen times, Plusnet, and have a collective habit of making the wrong decisions, holding the wrong line for too long, spinning the indefensible and ultimately getting caught short by doggedly sticking to an unwinnable position. Just for once, forget trying to spin a bad decision and do the right thing.
zubel
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,793
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎08-06-2007

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Oo, interesting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11443861
Quote
"ACS:Law's actions have undermined the current legal process," a spokesperson for PlusNet told BBC News.
"It's in everyone's interests to restore confidence in this process so that broadband users are safeguarded and we are determined to do this.
"We are actively reviewing our approach to these disclosure requests to achieve this objective and this will inform our approach to Monday's hearing," they added.

B.
dazco
Dabbler
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎30-09-2010

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!


I will be disgusted if PN do not fight this case on Monday and iam sure many other customers will feel the same, please respect our privacy and see these people for what they are scammers just looking to make easy money, it has nothing to do with copyright would they be doing this if there was no money involved mainly from people to scared to fight the acusations. Those who stand up and deny the claims are left alone as proven by the Ac law e mails !!!!!!!
foxtrck
Grafter
Posts: 110
Registered: ‎30-06-2010

Re: Plusnet will give your personal details to ACS Law with not informing you!!

Quote from: dazco
Here is an article some of you may find an interesting read regarding the upcoming court case
http://www.wiredvc.com/gallant-3macmillan44-to-follow-acslaw-route/

Quote
PlusNet are likely to fight this up-coming action tooth-and-nail, so if you are a PlusNet customer – give them your support – request that they at least INFORM YOU before they release your own personal data, even if the release is subject to a Court Order.

Don't know who wrote this, but there is still no solid evidence PN will fight this tooth and nail.