cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

mikez
Grafter
Posts: 29
Registered: 22-11-2012

Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Had fibre installed on Tuesday and was really pleased with FTTC - gone from 3Mbps to 36 Mbps !!
All our phones worked fine before the visit and OR Engineer checked that all our phones (main + 2 extensions) had a dial tone before he left.
We realised yesterday that one of the extensions now doesn't ring but does have a dialtone. Have tested with another phone and that doesn't ring either so we obviously have a wiring problem (and given that nothing whatsover was done at the extension then the fault must be at the Faceplate).
Seemed pretty simple to me but called Plusnet to be told " .... problems beyond faceplate are not our responsibilty.. etc, etc..."
To my mind OR (ie Plusnet) have understaken work on my installation -  it worked before they came but now it doesn't  = Plusnet responsibility.
Am I losing the plot ?
Thanks
33 REPLIES
CX
Grafter
Posts: 745
Thanks: 2
Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Hi,
You say you have 2 extensions. Does the other extension currently function?
mikez
Grafter
Posts: 29
Registered: 22-11-2012

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Hi
Yes - its fine. Dial tone and ringer, in fact thats the phone I used to test the other extension
Thanks
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,028
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Quick question have you tried connecting the phone through a separate filter (I assume that the BT faceplate includes the normal filter)
mikez
Grafter
Posts: 29
Registered: 22-11-2012

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Just tried it and it works !!. The OR Engineer asked me to remove the filters on all three phones.
Why does it still need a filter to work?
Many thanks Oldjim
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,028
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Because the filter regenerates the ring tone and, no I don't know why one worked and one didn't.
CX
Grafter
Posts: 745
Thanks: 2
Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Perhaps the ring wire isn't connected on the problematic extension. With a plug-in filter you'd probably not know, even if you had a phone which required it. With the FTTC faceplate the ring capacitor is back at the master socket, so you would need the third wire (re)connected to all of the extensions.
mikez
Grafter
Posts: 29
Registered: 22-11-2012

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Thanks to both for your replies - better than Plusnet support could manage  Wink
Capvermell
Grafter
Posts: 417
Registered: 16-12-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Just following up on this belatedly if you had to fit a filter on the extension with no ring tone to cure the problem then BT's Master Socket fibre filtered faceplate installation is defective or incorrectly wired and you are fitting the extension filter to compensate for this.
However as the master socket is not set up correctly the extra interference caused by broadband service travelling through to your extension socket is likely to be reducing your broadband speed below its maximum possibly capability (the maximum possible capability often greatly exceeds BT's original estimate on newly FTTC enabled exchanges where they have no real data to work from for other nearby houses with an FTTC service).  This is even though your broadband speed may at least be as good as that promised by BT when you placed the FTTC order.  For instance here the estimated downstream speed was 37.2Mbps but we still went for Fibre Unlimited and are now getting a 58Mbps IP Profile Downstream and 12.9Mbps Upstream compared to BT estimates of 37.2 and 6.1    It also doesn't help that Plusnet normally screws up and orders a 40/10 broadband service from BT even where customers place an 80/20 Fibre Unlimited order.  This usually doesn't get put right until a complaint is filed with Plusnet customer service.
With my relative on their phone line when they lost ringtone to one of their extensions I called BT repairs who told me that it was Plusnet's job to get the engineer back as the Master Socket was damaged when they were working on Plusnet's broadband service  I then called Plusnet who told me insistently that if I have a fault with an extension it is not either their or BT's responsibility.  This is nonsense as the fault has been created in the Master Socket before the customer's extension wiring begins.  Finally after further tooing and froing with Plusnet they told me to go back to BT faults but be insistent I wanted an engineer to come out even though BT would say they would charge for the visit if the fault is in the customer wiring.  As the fault is clearly in the Master Socket and their own records will show they have just enabled fibre broadband there should not be any such charge levied.
However for the OP as further time has gone by and your phone service will now be with Plusnet you should call Plusnet and get them to call out a BT Openreach engineer and when they say if the fault is in your wiring your will have to pay £99 tell them to go ahead anyway.  As the fault self evidently had to be caused by the recent fibre broadband install they will not levy the £99 charge.
dick:quote
jtemplar
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: 24-01-2013

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

@Capvermell
Interesting, thanks!
This is exactly the same issue I have with my new install from yesterday.
I have a dial tone and can make calls but I have to plug telephone extensions into a micro-filter to get my phone to ring for incoming calls.
Hello Plusnet?
Capvermell
Grafter
Posts: 417
Registered: 16-12-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Quote from: dTemplar
I have a dial tone and can make calls but I have to plug telephone extensions into a micro-filter to get my phone to ring for incoming calls

Which means that your connection speed at the exchange is also likely to be reduced below its maximum capbility due to having ADSL signal bouncing around your extension wiring.
This isn't Plusnet's initial foul up but BT Openreach's and this in turn seems to be happening because they are getting lots of freelance cowboys who don't know what they are doing to do the master socket faceplate upgrades because of the fact they are now getting such a huge number of orders.
Given that a customer's phone service is often also in transition from BT to Plusnet when the mess up of the wiring in the customer master socket by BT Openreach occurs Plusnet really needs to train its staff better in advising customers on the correct procedure to get BT back to fix their poor quality workmanship. Angry
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,281
Thanks: 28
Fixes: 4
Registered: 22-06-2012

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

I'm sure that you're correct because when my master socket was prepped for fibre (it was done 2 months early by a very cooperative BTOR engineer who was reparing a line fault) & I removed all of my filters from my 4 extensions & all work perfectly normally.
I wonder if these problems are being caused by the new influx of inexperienced engineers who have been recently recruited to cope with the rapidly increasing in orders for fibre. My guy had worked for BT for over 20 years. He was even kind enough to bring home one of my cats who had decided to go for a day out in the back of his van!! Smiley
(Posted at the same time as Capvermell's update!)
Capvermell
Grafter
Posts: 417
Registered: 16-12-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Quote from: tijara33
I wonder if these problems are being caused by the new influx of inexperienced engineers who have been recently recruited to cope with the rapidly increasing in orders for fibre. My guy had worked for BT for over 20 years. He was even kind enough to bring home one of my cats who had decided to go for a day out in the back of his van!! Smiley

This is almost certainly the case (lack of experience with temporary sub contractors is the problem).
The queue for an installation date on this exchange had grown from only one week after it first went live in November 2012 to three and a half weeks after BT had mailshotted everyone on the exchange to tell them about fibre now being available.  Then suddenly the queue fell to only 8 days in one day.  This was almost certainly when BT decided to use a third party telecoms contractor based in Slough.
The guy who did our installation was Polish and from a third party firm based in the Slough area.  He was pleasant and had good English (despite a strong Polish accent) but when he found there were four remote wired extensions to the master socket and he failed to put tags marking which terminals in the master socket they ran to before he inserted the filtered fibre faceplate it all rather fell apart on him.  He did go to a lot of trouble to get all the extensions reconnected (three were out at one point) and went and checked the dial tone on each.  Unfortunately pure lack of training hadn't told him to also do a bell test on each extension as well in this situation.  His willingness wasn't at fault it was just lack of experience of dealing with this kind of situation that was the problem along with BT now saying that the next appointment to send someone out to fix things is 10 days hence.
Plusnet then greatly aggravated things when we tried to report the fault by suggesting that both they and BT weren't responsible for our extension wiring not working even if the reason for it not working was it being disconnected in the master socket by BT Openreach's engineer.  Eventually after complaining further up the line at Plusnet we were told go back to BT faults on 151 and be more insistent it was their job to come back and fix the wiring their engineer had broken.  Of course if things had dragged on until the phone line was also handed over to Plusnet from BT then our only means of reporting the fault to BT Openreach would have been through Plusnet...............
jtemplar
Dabbler
Posts: 22
Registered: 24-01-2013

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Quote from: Capvermell
Plusnet then greatly aggravated things when we tried to report the fault by suggesting that both they and BT weren't responsible for our extension wiring not working even if the reason for it not working was it being disconnected in the master socket by BT Openreach's engineer.

Given that my phone line is now with Plusnet, (since Friday when the BTO engineer finalised my initially failed installation), do you think it is worth trying to get them to take ownership of this issue and organise a resolution via BTO or is it a relatively simple job to sort the wiring myself and so avoid any risk of additional charges, or should I just chill and enjoy my faster speeds?

Currently I have the telephone and filter unplugged.
Capvermell
Grafter
Posts: 417
Registered: 16-12-2007

Re: Install problem - am I losing the plot .................

Quote from: dTemplar
Given that my phone line is now with Plusnet, (since Friday when the BTO engineer finalised my initially failed installation), do you think it is worth trying to get them to take ownership of this issue and organise a resolution via BTO or is it a relatively simple job to sort the wiring myself and so avoid any risk of additional charges, or should I just chill and enjoy my faster speeds?

Legally speaking you shouldn't touch the master socket wiring so its probably best to get Plusnet to book a call with BT Openreach and say you know that if the fault is in your wiring you have to pay £99.   As the fault will be in the master socket wiring you won't then be charged the £99.
Quote


Currently I have the telephone and filter unplugged.

I can't match those speeds.  Same BT test wired to my router socket from my laptop is giving 58Mbps Down and 12.5Mbps Up  Still very satisfactory though compared to the BT estimate before ordering of 37.2 Mbps Down and 6.1Mbps Up and so justifying going for Fibre Unlimited.   I also find its possible to chew through several Gb per day watching HD stuff on the BBC Iplayer which again justifies not having to worry about a 40Gb cap.
However i am still feeling the lack of a YouView box, BT Vision type services and on the move wifi and wondering when Plusnet are going to offer any of this?
How far are you from the Cabinet?  I am about 350m to 400m away from my nearest Cabinet here but about a 3.5km run away from the telephone exchange itself (previous speed with Be Unlimited ADSL2+ was just 3Mbps sync rate and download speeds no better than 2.5Mbps so the increase from copper to fibre is about 23x!)
When BT comes back I'm going to see if I can get them to also renew the wiring from the master socket to the terminal block on the front of the house and the overhead wires from the house itself to the junction box on the telegraph pole as these are both 30+ years old and currently hanging very limp through some trees.   All the overhead copper wiring in the main road seems to have been renewed in the last two years which may be why the speeds here are so much better than the estimates.
Current Sync rate speeds from speedtester.bt.com are 62.45 and 20Mbps.  The Sync rate is always a few Mbps more than actual Download speed for the Downstream speed but at least is close to it and moves with actual download speed test results but the Upstream sync rate seems completely meaningless and stays at a permanent maximum of 20Mbps even though 13.1Mbps is the most actual speed you can achieve on a Speedtest, even at 3am.  The actual Upstream speed makes sense given that its about 25% of the Downstream speed and this is meant to be an 80/20 service.