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THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

maranello
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

@MauriceC

Sorry if I implied otherwise, clearly you are working hard in the background getting to grips with your new powers.

I wish you and the other Superusers success and hope you are given the support from customers and appropriate respect from the Plusnet senior management. 

My other car isn't a Ferrari
phj
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

Hello @JonoH, @MauriceC, @maranello, @HarryB, @Oldjim

Thank you all for your responses and the useful information, much appreciated.

I have a couple more points to raise regarding this issue:

1) Please can @HarryB link my account back to my son's in terms of the discount you apply to his invoice for me signing up through him? This is how my account was set up before this situation arose. I'll put his PlusNet username in the open member centre question, but I'd imagine you have this on record anyway?

2) As a point for discussion/improvement, whilst I appreciate PlusNet terms state communication regarding my account will be by email, in cases such as switching supplier, should a letter not always be sent? If not always, then perhaps if there is a certain percentage of the contract still to run? In my case, having 14 months left on a recently set up 18 month contact should really have set alarm bells ringing and a letter sent to my home address and not just the standard email being sent. Perhaps if there is more than 20% of time left to run on the contract a letter to the account holder's address should always be sent.

 

3) In terms of PlusNet gaining this line back and the broadband attached to it, how is the new supplier who has incorrectly taken over this line prevented from stopping the line being reverted back? My thought here is that the new supplier will contact who they believe to be the account holder and ask if they want to allow this switchover. This, they will believe, is the new occupants of the neighbouring property who will naturally not allow this. How do PlusNet force this through and guarantee gaining the line back?

Regards,

Peter Jones

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

maranello
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

@phj

Your last point is crucial. The situation will require Plusnet to do more than simply treat this as a standard takeover.

My other car isn't a Ferrari
phj
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

I fully agree @maranello, this cannot be treated as just a standard GPL switchover. There has to be a system in place that can override the standard process. I cannot approach my neighbours directly and ask them not to stop the transfer back as they have yet to move into their new property so I have no method by which to communicate with them.

JonoH
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

Hi @phj Happy to answer these next points for you.

 

1) Please can @HarryB link my account back to my son's in terms of the discount you apply to his invoice for me signing up through him? This is how my account was set up before this situation arose. I'll put his PlusNet username in the open member centre question, but I'd imagine you have this on record anyway?

 

Absolutely, @HarryB has already checked these Cheesy

 

2) As a point for discussion/improvement, whilst I appreciate PlusNet terms state communication regarding my account will be by email, in cases such as switching supplier, should a letter not always be sent? If not always, then perhaps if there is a certain percentage of the contract still to run? In my case, having 14 months left on a recently set up 18 month contact should really have set alarm bells ringing and a letter sent to my home address and not just the standard email being sent. Perhaps if there is more than 20% of time left to run on the contract a letter to the account holder's address should always be sent.

 

I agree entirely, as a matter of fact yesterday I started trying to find out why we only send it to a little over 90% of people and not everyone. It turns out that our aim is to send it to everyone but at the moment because of data matching we're unable to get a higher percentage than we currently have. Work continues to improve that percentage. I can also confirm after checking the raw data sent to our printers that you were not sent a letter.

 

3) In terms of PlusNet gaining this line back and the broadband attached to it, how is the new supplier who has incorrectly taken over this line prevented from stopping the line being reverted back? My thought here is that the new supplier will contact who they believe to be the account holder and ask if they want to allow this switchover. This, they will believe, is the new occupants of the neighbouring property who will naturally not allow this. How do PlusNet force this through and guarantee gaining the line back?

 

I'm going to try to answer these points at the same time, it's going to be tricky as I need to do this without providing account specific information. Please provide us with your mobile number, I'd love to contact you and update you fully.

 

Our suppliers records are incorrect, they have your line down under a different address to where it actually is, the addresses have similar names and I'm sure you can guess where their records think your line is located. We cant raise a request to update our suppliers records because we no longer own the line.

 

How do PlusNet force this through and guarantee gaining the line back?

 

Honestly, we can't guarantee it. we are not able to stop the new supplier cancelling the order, that has not happened yet. We're monitoring it and will let you know of any developments.

 

maranello wrote:

The situation will require Plusnet to do more than simply treat this as a standard takeover.

 

We've contacted our suppliers and asked them to do this as quickly as possible, we've explained the circumstances but we are still awaiting a reply. It may be that they will be able to do this quicker, we don't know yet but whilst we wait its better to have the standard process going through in the background as that starts the ball rolling.

 

 Jono H
 Plusnet Community Manager
phj
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

Hello @JonoH


@JonoH wrote:

 

 

I'm going to try to answer these points at the same time, it's going to be tricky as I need to do this without providing account specific information. Please provide us with your mobile number, I'd love to contact you and update you fully.

 

 

 

 


I'll PM you my son's mobile number as I don't own one. To be truthful, he has knowledge on this type of thing so you'll get more out of speaking to him than me. You have my full permission to discuss everything on my account with him.

 


 

How do PlusNet force this through and guarantee gaining the line back?

 

Honestly, we can't guarantee it. we are not able to stop the new supplier cancelling the order, that has not happened yet. We're monitoring it and will let you know of any developments.

 

 

 

 


Are PlusNet in contact with the new supplier to inform them what has happened? Do you know who this is? Could I contact them and tell them not to stop the order?

 

Thanks also for confirming that no written letter was sent to me regarding this switchover. If this had've happened I could have responded to stop all of this mess. I hope you can use this case as an example of how not sending switchover letters to 100% of customers has, in the end, cost PlusNet far more than the cost of mailing a letter.

 

One final point, can you also confirm that the telephone number ending 597 has now been officially reserved rather than only having a provisional reservation yesterday?

 

Regards,

Peter Jones

 

 

 

Townman
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!


@maranello wrote:

This situation is one which I would expect the Superusers to take an active interest in.


Not sure that there is anything the SUs can do here (beyond the action already taken by @MauriceC) as this an industry bad process issue.  What would be your expectations here?

@JonoH has already outlined some of the key issues here - when the process goes wrong it goes wrong big time - however BTw / BTOR do not appear to have the processes to quickly fix "its gone wrong by mistake" problems ... all too often of THEIR making due to the poor quality of THEIR data.

There are fundamental flaws in the industry's processes; it relies on...

  • BT data being accurate - we see all too many provide issues / cancelled orders / bridge cases around here which tells us that the data quality is rather poor
  • The "new" (or in this case the other) supplier correctly identifying the line to be taken over
  • The losing supplier informing their customer of the attempt to take over the line
  • The customer receiving the communication
  • The customer understanding the communication
  • The customer taking mitigating timely action if they do not want the move to happen

Once the move has happened (rightly or wrongly) the losing provider no longer has any control over that line - this is where BTw/BTOR need to have an unscrew a screwed-up service migration - which unpicks the cockerel-up irrespective of blame ... especially when the root cause was their poor data.

Personally I prefer the authority to take over token (MAC) approach - user has to ask existing supplier for the "key" - existing supplier becomes aware of an intent -  new supplier cannot proceed without the "key" - all equals zero surprises.  Whilst in the past the "key" (MAC code) only applied to broadband, it would have been beneficial if it also applied to the "phone" service.

 

The present gaining supplier led migration is too dependent upon a just 10 day cooling off period within which the losing supplier has to communicate with their user that a take over has been requested.  This is now peak holiday season - 10 days is simply not long enough to ENSURE that the user receives the communication and can act upon it - they might be on two weeks vacation somewhere and 10 days just does not hack it.  On the other hand, making the cooling off period something more reasonable (like 21 days) would result in longer waits for service migration.

An affirmative migration "authorisation key" approach is in my mind much more safe and ought to completely inhibit the risk of slamming ... or mistakes such as this arising from new supplier error or BT poor quality data.

However, such is way beyond any ability to influence the SUs might be believed to have.  I think given the disclosed circumstances and industry constraints, PlusNet are doing all that can be done.

There is a lesson to be learnt here for all users though - please ensure that you know where your postmaster@ emails go to and ensure that you read all emails from PlusNet.  Ensure that the PlusNet email address is whitelisted in any anti-spam tools you use.  Not ensuring that you do see and read PlusNet sent emails could mean that another party's mistake could result in your line being lost. Cool_smiley

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

198kHz
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!


@Townman wrote:

The present gaining supplier led migration is too dependent upon a just 10 day cooling off period within which the loosing supplier has to communicate with their user that a take over has been requested.  This is now peak holiday season - 10 days is simply not long enough to ENSURE that the user receives the communication and can act upon it - they might be on two weeks vacation somewhere and 10 days just does not hack it.

An important point.

I was once nearly caught in a similar situation, while on holiday. Fortunately the B&B had internet access, so I had early sight of the email from Plusnet, thereby avoiding coming home to no service.

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berryp1
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

Sorry for being picky, but it is lose (past tense lost) not loose (as in a loose nut, one that isn't tight).

PeeGee
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

@berryp1 I decided it was not worth the effort a long time ago, especially as German and French work contacts had a better knowledge of English structure than many of my younger colleagues - and proof reading was done by Scottish/Welsh schooled members of the team. Literacy is no longer a requirement to pass English exams Crazy3

Phil

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Using a TP-Link Archer VR600 modem-router.
maranello
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!


@Townman wrote:

@maranello wrote:

This situation is one which I would expect the Superusers to take an active interest in.


Not sure that there is anything the SUs can do here (beyond the action already taken by @MauriceC) as this an industry bad process issue.  What would be your expectations here?

I'll outline them

1. The OP has reported the error to Plusnet, but Plusnet cannot stop the erroneous cancellation charge being taken by direct debit, and cannot expedite a refund. 

There are fundamental flaws in the industry's processes

2. True. Why isn't Plusnet (or any other ISPs for that matter) lobbying OFCOM to change the rules/processes so that the situation experienced by the OP is less prevalent. 

@Townman

Your explanation of the process and its flaws is informative and helpful in understanding why such errors occur. But putting the blame on BTOR/BTw does not help the customer because he/she is not a customer of BTOR/BTw. I'm not as well informed as you, my personal experience of being slammed related to my electricity supply. My existing supplier claimed they would correct the data error that was resulting in the erroneous takeover, only for the same thing to happen 12 months later. The data was only corrected after I switched to a supplier who had better processes in place for dealing with such occurrences. In other words, not all suppliers are equal.

So, what are my expectations? That the Superusers can help Plusnet to recover the good reputation it once had by influencing the changes that can be made to improve the customer experience. The view I have always held is that the measure of a good provider (of electricity, gas, telecoms) is not just how well it does the easy tasks, but how effectively it rectifies when things go wrong. The provider needs to have good internal processes, and adequately trained and motivated staff. Unfortunately it appears that Plusnet staff who do the best they can are hampered not just by the industry-wide processes and restrictions, but also by the inflexibility of their own processes. So I would expect the Superusers such as yourself with sufficient background knowledge to influence the decisions made by Plusnet management such that the customer experience is improved. The issue discussed in this thread is only one of many that I believe the Superusers should be championing, but I've probably said enough already. 

My other car isn't a Ferrari
Townman
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

@berryp1 and @PeeGee,

OK so spelling has never exactly been my strong point, but none the less thank you for your valuable contribution to the subject matter. 

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Townman
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

@maranello,

Interesting points noted - thank you.

Yes there are opportunities around stopping incorrect charges, however I suspect that once the direct debit charge has been initiated through BACS it is out side any control of the initiating party.  All that can be done is to wait for it to complete (or fail) and then to respond accordingly.  There is a new billing system on its way....!

If you want to deliver improvement you need to identify the root cause ... in the case it is substantially poor BTw/BTOR data.  This is not "passing blame" as you infer it is an honest assessment of the cause of the failure here.  Thereafter there are no quick remedies to rectify what has gone wrong ... just standard business as normal ordering processes with its in-built 10 day anti-slamming delay.

As for service resellers being responsible for correcting their suppliers erroneous data, well the reseller first needs to be aware that the data is wrong in the first place.  It's understandable that such awareness might only come about after things have gone wrong.

i agree that complaints to Ofcom are required and I have suggest such on several occasions, but (seeking to manage expectations) I have little hope of SUs being able to influence PN to raise complaints to Ofcom over the conduct of one of their siblings.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

JonoH
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!


@Townman wrote:

@maranello,

Interesting points noted - thank you.

Yes there are opportunities around stopping incorrect charges, however I suspect that once the direct debit charge has been initiated through BACS it is out side any control of the initiating party.  All that can be done is to wait for it to complete (or fail) and then to respond accordingly.

 

This is correct, I've just double checked this and once it's submitted we are unable to edit it in any way. The account holder can cancel the instruction with the bank, however if not done promptly the payment will be taken and the refund will be delayed.

 


 It's understandable that such awareness might only come about after things have gone wrong.

 

If we'd have known prior to this that there was an error in the records we would have rectified it, all it takes is a quick email to our suppliers a short delay and then the records are updated. The problem is it's very difficult for us or our suppliers to know if the records are incorrect before there is a problem.  As always I'd be interested in hearing any suggestions people have to improve this process.

 Jono H
 Plusnet Community Manager
phj
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Re: THIS IS URGENT! Broadband and phone cancelled by someone else!

 

Hello @JonoH

Please could you pick up on my points/questions in message 21 above?

Thank you.

Regards,

Peter Jones