Are you a loyal customer leaving Plusnet? BEWARE!

[#1]

I have been with PlusNet for over 15 years without any hitches other than the trouble of negotiating terms at the renewal of each contract, which has never been too difficult. I survived a very slow 2mbps (on a good day) wired connection to a cabinet almost a mile away and was overjoyed to get FTTC when I moved to a new house 5 ½   Years ago and subsequent improvements to my last renewal at 74Mbps.  Customer Service was always impeccable

HOWEVER my experience since about 6 months ago has been AWFUL with the farming out of email to Greenby being a total disaster.  It was bad enough to be told that the email service which had been an integral part of the contract was now considered a “free” service that would be chargeable in 2 years’ time but the changeover in administration has been a total disaster with frequent hiccups, lost emails (that I know about), delays in sending and receiving and so on. I was not even told that my account had been migrated dn found out only recently that my 2 free years had started a few months ago – and that only by accident when I specifically raised a query on the Greenby site.  In retrospect that sems to have been a prioritising ploy to prevent the price increase from coinciding with a new contract end date.

My Contract was due for renewal on 25 March this year.  The issues with Greenby were an irritation but when I was informed that PlusNet were not able to retain the landline connection and that it would be necessary for me to move to EE at an inflated price to retain this I sought alternatives finding that Vodafone could supply my requirements, admittedly without the email facility but with a 150Mbs FTTP instead of my previous 74Mbps FTTC with PlusNet and with a lesser built in annual price increase at a price almost 10% less than Plusnet could offer for their inferior product.

I therefore decided to switch and proceeded to set up new email arrangements alongside my existing PlusNet addresses in anticipation of an immediate and possibly un-notified switch-off.

After a somewhat feeble attempt to retain my custom PlusNet notified me by email on 11 March that my service would end on 30 March when OpenReach were to implement the change from FTTC to FTTP.

I was expecting a reduced DD payment to be taken from my Bank on 25 April to reflect the short period of service from 25 March to 30 March but did not worry when I did not receive the normal email notification regarding my March DD payment thinking that I would receive that after termination as a final invoice.  Instead, I noticed a few days ago that I had been charged over £61 instead of the usual monthly charge of just over £25.  On enquiry I discovered that I can expect the final bil some 20 days after termination and any refund due to be credited back some time thereafter. I also dicovered that my April Bill had suddenly appeared in my PlusNet email account and dated 25 March!

Needless to say I have activated the DD Guarantee Process with my bank who have immediately activated a refund to my account.

Had I received prior notification of the DD that was to be raised at an “out-of-contract” price I could have asked Vodafone to take over on 25 March on the then existing FTTC basis to be upgrade seamlessly to FTTP once OpenReach had done their magic.  As it is I have been presented with an unacceptable fait accompli!

As I have made a point of checking all my email accounts several times a day over the past 4 weeks or so I can only assume that the delayed receipt of the notification of my April bill being available was down to a failure by Greenby

What a reward for loyalty to a company!  They have engendered a massive amount of antipathy for the sake of well under £5 of increased revenue.  When I rang PlusNet today the call centre operator just was not interested in my protestations!

[#2]

I am puzzled by several point in this post - how about others?

@inspiredron
Your "landline" phone line is going whoever your phone or ISP is... OK, Plusnet will not be offering any telephone services in future - hence the default of easy transfer to EE for those who want a simple pre-packaged way to keep their 'landline' phone number with a home phone and 'BB'. But this can still be done without EE, many posts on this forum explain this (I elected to simply abandon my landline).

Also, Plusnet supply FTTP (if available via Openreach in your area). I am still with Plusnet on 150 Mbps FTTP. Previously I was on Plusnet 40/10 FTTC. It is standard to lose your landline after being connected to FTTP. You can hardly retain a landline phone while not being connected to the landline network! Signing up for FTTP means the termination of the old landline network to your premises. But you have 30 days to port your landline phone number to another, VoIP, supplier.

The Plusnet billing computer system moves in mysterious ways, its wonders to perform!

"I can only assume that the delayed receipt of the notification of my April bill being available was down to a failure by Greenby"

How so?

[#3]

So another customer lost to PlusNet through their incompetence, when working email, FTTP and 3rd party VOIP would have retained them.  Will they ever learn - or do they even want to

The issue is that the chosen script from PlusNet and their subcontractors is to tell customers 'If you want to keep your 'phone' you MUST transfer to EE NOW' or 'we will CUT YOU OFF'.  The EE route is not served up (as you correctly say) as 'here is a simple option for you' - it is getting close to lies / bullying / slamming.

See my comments:

https://community.plus.net/t5/Everything-else/Calls-from-01438-989277/td-p/2039133

Where customers are getting their bills via their plus.com addresses, reciept of those emails depends on the Greenby servers agreeing to connect and download.  At times they have failed for days on end for any one user (eg if they reject half the connection attempts, then 6% of the people connecting 4 times a day will not connect - etc).

[#4]

Plusnet at one time in the past were running a Voip service trial, which ended in 2015, i was on that trail, it worked as an additional number, as opposed to a replacement,

Im now on FTTP and my "landline" ( i want /need to keep the number) has been successfully ported to a Voip provider (voipfone) and is running hassle free via a little black box called an analogue telephone adaptor ATA ( Grandstream HT801) 

 I purchased this from my Voip provider ( voipfone) it came pre configured ( its unlocked so i can change provider if i want to) 

and the set up was plug and play, ethernet connection to router, USB power again from routers USB port ( or mains adaptor) 

For people who are reliant on their landline and/or want to retain the number it would be extremely simple for the likes of BT/BT group to sell or provide an analogue telephone adaptor ( the grandstream ones can be locked down by providers if they want to) and make these available, the set up is shockingly simple.

Phone pugs into ATA

Ethernet wire goes between ATA and Router

Power goes from ATA to routers USB port or mains adaptor 

That is it 

There is a heck of a lot of confusion over Voip/landlines etc and many older people think that all landlines/plug in phones are BT ( ive even heard of it mentioned as GPO) 

With a separate plug and play  ATA BT could even sell voice services to customers on other providers and it would simplify changing broadband provider as the "landline" would be completely separate  and BT retail group would still get some money

[#5]

..."There is a heck of a lot of confusion over Voip/landlines etc and many older people think that all landlines/plug in phones are BT ( ive even heard of it mentioned as GPO)"

That's a 1969 jobby!

[#6]

The fundimental problem (from the BT board perspective), was that Plusnet was a better offer than their other brands (included email and could have a voice service) for less money.

Why would people buy EE/BT (other than a better included router)?

To "position" as a "value" brand the phone service had to be removed (via not offering VoIP although it would have been technically fairly simple to use the same platform as BT use) and the "included" email needed to be removed.

From that perspective the Greenby move is arguably better than doing what other ISPs have sometimes done, which is just announced a closure of the service.

I sort of get the email approach, but not offering an equivalent of the BT VoIP service when the customer equipment came with the required socket is a strange choice, as I suspect a number of former Plusnet customers will go to other suppliers rather than BT to get a landline.

The BT "Digital Voice" landline service with a calls package isn't cheap and I can't believe it isn't "a good little earner" for BT but I suppose the calculator was run over the options and enough people could be "encouraged" to take a more expensive BT or EE broadband package to keep their landline.

[#7]

but not offering an equivalent of the BT VoIP service when the customer equipment came with the required socket is a strange choice

depends on what percentage of your current & projected customer base uses a landline phone ? if its small (and I suspect it is) then it makes sense.

(via not offering VoIP although it would have been technically fairly simple to use the same platform as BT use)

Technically simple , yes but not administratively simple , PN would have to setup a contractual and support arrangement with BT Retail. If the service was supplied and supported by Openreach or BTWholesale it would have been easier...

[#8]

The Hub 2 has a masked socket on the back. Isn’t that a VOIP socket? Plusnet is a part of BT. So where is the problem? Vodafone have included 2 VOIP sockets on their router and they ‘somehow’ support them in a way that is seamless for the consumer. BT seem to have made a decision that they don’t need to offer cheaper services through Plusnet any more. It was good while it lasted but now it’s time to move on!

[#9]

The problems are that 

1) The Plusnet firmware doesn't allow for the VoIP socket use

2) Plusnet hasn't arranged access to (or replicated) the BT Digital Voice service

Neither appear to an outsider to be particularly challenging but BT as a whole made a commercial decision that Plusnet wouldn't continue to offer voice services and that's where we are.

The measure of the success (or otherwise) of that choice will be the number of customers who leave Plusnet for Sky, Vodafone or others who can offer a "landline" service. A small proportion would suggest the choice was (for BT as a whole) a good one. If people generally move to a BT or EE service then that's a success.   

Given the various other changes in the broadband market it will be hard to attribute numbers to causes.

[#10]

Interesting topic/discussion and I don't think many would disagree that the handling/implementation of the "simplification" (for want of a better word) of the PlusNet service has not been handled well, to put it mildly!

But if I look at people I know, of all generations, there are few (and reducing) who want or need an ISP-linked email and/or a premises (landline) telephone, even the older generation are finding both of limited use.

So it does make sense for BT Group to offer a simplified product of internet connectivity only and they've chosen PlusNet to do that. Many long-standing customers will find that disappointing, inconvenient or worse given the wide spectrum of services they used to offer, but sadly it is what it is. The near-parallel closure of the copper telephone service (POTS) does add to the confusion and stress, plus the strange BT-mandated interactions that many do not know of between services that can cause unexpected termination.

At least this forum still continues so hopefully helpful advice can be shared, especially to those who are finding this transition difficult.

[#11]

@markhawkin 

VoIP is not just the (comparatively simple) consideration of access / utilising the BT system.  It’s the far more complex matter of billing and support.

Openreach provided wholesale PTSN services to the whole industry which included billing.  The VoIP model is very different and is not provided by Openreach or BT Wholesale.

[#12]

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@MisterW wrote:

PN would have to setup a contractual and support arrangement with BT Retail. If the service was supplied and supported by Openreach or BTWholesale it would have been easier...

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BT retail or EE ?

My neighbour was transferred to EE from BT Retail when switching ADSL to FTTP - without discussion

The switch was agreed with BT Retail, for the BT Retail FTTP product over the phone to BT Retail, with no mention of EE

The next she knew was a letter 'Welcome to EE'

(The subsequent failure of EE to give a working green socket is well documented in my posts elsewhere)

[#13]

As an elderly consumer I am not really interested in the mechanics of billing.

Plusnet used to provide a comprehensive service which included email and voice services. They decided to stop the email provision but did provide a transitional arrangement which gave time for the consumer to make alternative arrangements. 

As far as voice facilities are concerned I don't understand the difference between getting that via FTTC and FTTP until it is discontinued later this year or next. I know that old style voice services are to be phased out in late 2026/2027 and I was preparing for that by advising all my contacts that they should use my and my wife's mobile numbers for contact.  As it happens I found a very suitable SIM only package which provided calls, UK and EU plus several other countries at a price (for 2 such packages) the same as I was previously paying PlusNet for just UK outgoing landline calls. 

My new Broadband provider has a  socket on the router that lets me continue to receive incoming calls on the landline number while my contacts get used to ringing my mobile.  The sole difference is that my "landline" now dies during a power outage - but that would be the case with VOIP from BT or EE as well.  And the bonus is that I am paying around 10% less than PlusNet wanted for their restricted services!  EE or BT would both have been significantly more per month.

To me it was a no-brainer.  

[#14]

@mwwagain 

BT retail or EE ?

You're right it would probably have to be an agreement with EE.

(The subsequent failure of EE to give a working green socket is well documented in my posts elsewhere)

and that just highlights the problems of ISPs supporting a voip service! Its all very well having a phone socket on the router but its no use if support can't get it working!. The traditional landline phone service is provided and supported by Openreach. If an ISP receives a phone fault call, they just pass it to Openreach, simples!. In the voip scenario, first they have to have staff trained to diagnose the fault and then a mechanism to fix it. I suspect, in reality, that's just send replacement equipment since they don't have field engineers!. One of my neighbours had a problem recently with his TT FTTP and voip phone service. They diagnosed it as a router problem but couldnt provide an immediate replacement. I hooked up one of my spare routers and got his broadband service working but it took TT nearly four weeks to replace the router and get his phone service working again! That cost TT nearly £200 in compensation! and they can't claim that back from Openreach!

[#15]

@inspiredron 

“As an elderly consumer I am not really interested in the mechanics of billing.”

… but when you seek to make out how simple you think things should be … you do need to understand how the real world works.  The provision of PTSN voice services is fundamentally very different to delivering voice over IP, from the technology platforms through to billing mechanisms and support requirements.  They are not from a provision perspective equally interchangeable.

Age is no barrier to learning and understanding new concepts.  I’m no spring chicken either.