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Parents cut off

pvmb
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Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Parents cut off

@jab1 

"I don't know if it has been communicated to the public via any media outlets - say the BBC or the  Independent channels - as I rarely watch TV these days, and do have a tendency to 'switch off' mentally, between programmes or at ad-breaks, but I don't recall seeing ANYTHING on the subject - AT ALL."

A couple of years ago there was a fairly short lived campaign on radio. Also, me and a friend attended a temporary public BT enquiry booth on the topic. But generally there doesn't seem to me to have been much high level official publicity about it all, mainly newspaper articles.

jab1
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Re: Parents cut off

So, @pvmb , we can safely assume our caring government assumed everyone was as clued-up about it as us technically inclined individuals - or they assumed everyone would learn about it by osmosis, so didn't bother advertising such a major change. 

John
MisterW
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Re: Parents cut off

or didn't understand what it's all about!

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

jab1
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Re: Parents cut off

That is most likely, @MisterW !

John
SixCopperKs
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Re: Parents cut off

For what it’s worth: I can, right now, see someone’s out-of-contract PlusNet account (WLR3 fttc), and —when you log into the account, such as prompted by a monthly bill email— the closure notice is clear: “Your account will not be supported from December 2026.”

It’s a whopping great pop-up, assuming you’re able to see it and are able to log in to that account that you probably set up more than two years ago. [Image attached….]

BUT none of the account holder’s bills (PDFs from the account) have mentioned the fact that their out-of-contract account will be forced to come to a halt.

Missed opportunity to say —in print—  “your renewal options WILL be different” and a missed opportunity to say “as you do not have a fixed-term contract, you should review your options because your current service will NOT be supported from December 2026, and your current service WILL change. We will notify you of changes, this may be more than thirty days but we guarantee it will be no less than thirty days. Please speak to our customer options team to make sure the options are right for you.”

SixCopperKs
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Re: Parents cut off

Minor correction to my wording: (I wrote:)

BUT none of the account holder’s bills (PDFs from the account) have mentioned the fact that their out-of-contract account will be forced to come to a halt.

It’s not the account that will be forced to come to a halt. It’s the service that will come to a halt. The FTTC with analogue phone will be forced quite soon to change to something else, and their PN account will continue until they either change it / upgrade it / get moved to somewhere else like EE.

jab1
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Re: Parents cut off

Unless they are in a Fibre Priority exchange, they should be able to change to SOGEA and arrange their own VOIP  phone service, once the change has completed. Yes, it will mean a new contract, but it will ensure continuation of the FTTC broadband.

John
Baldrick1
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Re: Parents cut off


@jab1 wrote:

Unless they are in a Fibre Priority exchange, they should be able to change to SOGEA and arrange their own VOIP  phone service, once the change has completed.


It would be interesting to know how many ISPs are willing to provide SoGEA where Full Fibre is available.

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ExForce9
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Re: Parents cut off

@Baldrick1 

Intrigued by your question, I asked Grok, why are ISPs reluctant to offer SoGEA when FTTP is available in a non 'priority' exchange. I thought the answer was quite interesting, so I'm sharing it here -

 

 

For the ISP, the main differences are wholesale cost structure, eligibility for Openreach’s volume/mix-based discounts (especially under the Equinox schemes), operational simplicity, and longer-term product viability. There are clear commercial incentives for the ISP to steer the customer toward full-fibre (FTTP) rather than SoGEA.

Key wholesale and commercial differences

Openreach’s Equinox / Equinox 2 offers (and related incentives) are the central mechanism. These give substantial discounts on FTTP rental and connection charges, but they are conditional on the ISP meeting Fibre Only performance targets/thresholds (typically ~80% for full rental discounts and ~90% for full connection discounts). These measure the mix of new orders placed on FTTP (vs copper-based products such as SoGEA/FTTC) within Openreach’s FTTP footprint.

  • Placing a SoGEA order when FTTP is available counts against the Fibre Only ratio. Enough such orders can push the ISP below the threshold, causing it to lose (or fail to achieve) the discounted FTTP pricing across a large volume of lines. The discounts are material (historically double-digit percentages on many tiers, plus connection rebates, ARPU-share mechanisms, try-before-you-buy pricing on higher speeds, cablelink discounts for pure-FTTP setups, etc.). Falling back to list prices is expensive.
  • FTTP orders help the ISP hit or maintain the thresholds, preserving the lower wholesale rates on its wider FTTP base. There are also ongoing/top-up incentives aimed specifically at FTTP take-up and higher speeds (e.g., Frontbook ARPU share/caps, incremental New-to-Openreach rebates, 550 Mb try-before-you-buy, proactive upgrade offers, box-swap incentives).

Because the exchange is not a Fibre Priority (stop-sell) exchange, both products remain orderable, so the ISP has a genuine choice. In Fibre Priority exchanges the rules are stricter (copper-based new supply is heavily restricted or blocked once FTTP coverage hits thresholds), which removes or reduces the option.

Wholesale list/discounted prices themselves are not identical. FTTP Equinox pricing for popular residential tiers is structured to be competitive with (and in many cases more attractive on a long-term basis than) SoGEA/FTTC once the mix targets are met. Connection charges under Equinox are also heavily discounted for new-to-Openreach and many migration scenarios (especially in Area 2). SoGEA has its own special offers and is generally cheaper at the very low end, but the ISP loses the broader Equinox benefits and faces higher future migration costs.

Other practical differences for the ISP

  • Customer lifetime value and churn: FTTP supports much higher speeds and better reliability/future-proofing. This makes it easier to upsell, reduces support costs, and lowers the chance the customer later switches to an altnet or competitor offering full fibre.
  • Operational and network costs: Pure FTTP reduces reliance on copper elements and can simplify some backhaul/cablelink arrangements (there are specific discounts for FTTP-only cablelinks). SoGEA still uses the FTTC cabinet infrastructure.
  • Migration path: A customer on SoGEA will almost certainly need to be moved to FTTP later (as copper is phased out and stop-sell expands). Doing it now avoids a second intervention, potential disruption, and extra cost.
  • Retail positioning: ISPs can (and do) price FTTP attractively relative to SoGEA/FTTC at retail, or even match prices, because the wholesale economics and marketing value of “full fibre” support it. Many large ISPs treat FTTP as the default where available.

Incentives / price advantages to encourage full fibre

Yes—beyond the long-term obsolescence of SoGEA/copper:

  • Preserving or maximising Equinox (and related) discounts on the ISP’s overall Openreach FTTP volumes is the strongest ongoing financial incentive.
  • Lower effective wholesale cost per high-value customer once discounts and ARPU-share mechanisms apply.
  • Connection rebates and temporary promotional pricing that apply to FTTP (including higher-speed tiers).
  • Reduced future migration/support costs and better retention.
  • Alignment with Openreach’s commercial offers that reward FTTP-heavy order mixes.

Smaller ISPs sometimes have waivers or more lenient treatment on the Fibre Only thresholds, but the general direction of Openreach’s pricing and Ofcom-regulated framework still strongly favours FTTP take-up.

In short, when both are available outside a Fibre Priority exchange, the ISP has a clear commercial reason (primarily protecting and maximising Equinox-style discounts and improving long-term unit economics) to prefer and encourage the customer onto full fibre rather than SoGEA. The exact margin impact depends on the ISP’s overall order mix, size, and which specific Equinox/offer terms it is on, but the structure is deliberately designed to make FTTP the preferred wholesale product.

 

jab1
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Re: Parents cut off

@Baldrick1 If FTTP is available, I totally agree that it is very sensible for an ISP to 'steer' a customer in that direction, for all the reasons given in @ExForce9 's post above.

@ExForce9 Thanks for that explanation.

John