Digital Switchover 2025

[#1]

The real issue is that currently Plusnet don't offer VoIP. All PSTN will be switched off by the end of 2025, and in many areas it won't be possible to have a new PSTN line from a few months time.

What will happen to Plusnet customers in areas where PSTN is not available - they won't be able to have any phone service from Plusnet. From next year a 24 month contract will run into the time when a PSTN line won't be available anywhere, so Plusnet won't be able to provide the services that were contracted.

There is the additional complication that Plusnet's billing system is tied to a telephone number. With no phone lines that won't be possible. From past billing system updates, I don't believe they have enough time to make the necessary changes.

[#2]

There is the additional complication that Plusnet's billing system is tied to a telephone number. With no phone lines that won't be possible. From past billing system updates, I don't believe they have enough time to make the necessary changes.

The billing system can already handle accounts with no telephone numbers. It does so for FTTP accounts.

[#3]

@MisterW 

Now that spawns a very interesting thought!

If FTTP can exist in the billing and other business systems without an attached "Phone line" service ... then why can the same business systems not support the migration away of telephone services associated with ADSL / FTTC without destroying the account / billing arrangements?

Such ought to facilitate tidy migration of the voice service to a VoIP provider whilst leaving the broadband service / account intact ... to be upgraded to FTTP as and when convenient / necessary.

[#4]

@Townman  @MisterW  - Good points from both of you. I know what my thoughts are, but I'm not going to make them public, just in case I may be wrong.

[#5]

then why can the same business systems not support the migration away of telephone services associated with ADSL / FTTC without destroying the account / billing arrangements?

That's not a problem with the system not supporting an account without a phone number. It's that on FTTC/ADSL , Openreach insist on an associated phone line, so migrating the phone away ceases the service. Migration of the service to SOGEA ( if PN were to supply it!) would obviously be a potential solution but that is subject to the same porting out catch 22 problems as currently exist with FTTP. 

Maybe it will all be fine come April when the OFCOM directive, on being able to port a number for up to a month after cease, comes into being ( is that an airborne porcine object I see! )🙄

[#6]

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@MisterW wrote:

That's not a problem with the system not supporting an account without a phone number. It's that on FTTC/ADSL , Openreach insist on an associated phone line, so migrating the phone away ceases the service. Migration of the service to SOGEA ( if PN were to supply it!) would obviously be a potential solution but that is subject to the same porting out catch 22 problems as currently exist with FTTP. 🙄

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Presumably in areas with PSTN stop-sell OR provide SOGEA in order to provide a service. So if Plusnet don't supply SOGEA will they be able to provide even broadband in such areas?

[#7]

Presumably in areas with PSTN stop-sell OR provide SOGEA in order to provide a service.

I would assume so.

So if Plusnet don't supply SOGEA will they be able to provide even broadband in such areas?

If there's no FTTP available , then yes, a good question! and it's closer than 2025!

AIUI there's a general WLR Stop Sell come Sept 2023, so only existing landline provisions will continue past then...

[#8]

I think the problem we all have is trying to anticipate exactly what will happen when the PSTN is switched off (Dec 2025) in different circumstances depending on whether full fibre has been deployed by Openreach to a particular premises or not. This is made worse by the less than clear forward thinking and publication of that by ISPs. Maybe things will become clearer after April assuming the OFCOM directive re porting of landlines actually comes into being then and Plusnet (and Openreach) change their procedures to comply.

Presumably, if voice will be carried over the internet post 2025, then the telephone number must still exist whether or not the copper line is still in place and in use (in cases where fibre has not reached a particular house) and thus whether voice is initally carried over copper or fibre. Of course, if the voice service has been terminated (e.g. by adopting Plusnet full fibre if available) then that number will no longer exist at those premises.

In my case, Openreach have declared a stop sell date of September 2023,; PSTN switch off in December 2025; and Openreach fibre by December 2026 throughout the district area (although it will be sooner in some parts of it). 

[#9]

Openreach, change their procedures to comply.

Isnt that an oxymoron?

<Sorry, couldnt resist>😀

I think the problem we all have is trying to anticipate exactly what will happen when the PSTN is switched off (Dec 2025) in different circumstances depending on whether full fibre has been deployed by Openreach to a particular premises or not. This is made worse by the less than clear forward thinking and publication of that by ISPs. Maybe things will become clearer after April assuming the OFCOM directive re porting of landlines actually comes into being then and Plusnet (and Openreach) change their procedures to comply.

Dont worry, OFCOM have it all in hand!

<couldnt resist that either>

[#10]

@MisterW  OFCOM have it all in hand! Yeah right!! and pigs might fly.😀

[#11]

Where is there any evidence that OFCOM have anything in hand regarding PSTN shutdown?

[#12]

There is lots if one looks -

Upgrading landlines to digital technology – what you need to know - Ofcom

Moving landline phones to digital technology: what you need to know - Ofcom

"BT has taken the decision to retire its PSTN by December 2025 and this means other providers that use BT’s network must follow the same timescale. Other companies with their own networks such as Virgin Media plan to follow a similar timescale."

...

"These changes have already started, but you don’t need to do anything until your provider contacts you to tell you your service is changing. Alternatively, if you want to move to a VoIP service now, you can do so by upgrading to a new phone and broadband package."

...

"If you are dependent on your landline phone – for example, if you don’t have a mobile phone or don’t have mobile signal at your home – your provider must offer you a solution to make sure you can contact the emergency services when a power cut occurs. For example, a mobile phone (if you have signal), or a battery back-up unit for your landline phone.

This solution should be provided free of charge to people who are dependent on their landline."

...

"The decision to close the PSTN has been made by industry, not Ofcom or the UK Government. Our aim is to make sure customers don’t face undue disruption or harm from the changes."

Guidance: Protecting access to emergency organisations when there is a power cut at the customer’s p...

"... the guidance sets out Ofcom’s expectations on the measures they should have in place to ensure customers making calls over broadband are able to make emergency calls in the event of a power cut at their premises. It takes the form of four Principles for providers to follow"

This is all BT driven and we all know how bad BT is at decision making!

The real question is how will the ISPs/CPs deal with the implied obligations.  The provision of UPS equipment alone could be back breakers for the industry.

[#13]

@Townman - I've read articles of this sort before BUT still don't know whether OFCOM are going to oblige ISPs to make existing phone numbers portable - PN still seem to be saying that I can only keep my landline number IF I switch to BT Retail with PN "assistance". Also no guidance on what is going to happen if/when my specific exchange switches off PSTN other than vague statements along the lines of "your ISP will contact you" . As a household with very poor mobile signal we really want to keep a landline of some sort.

[#14]

@Townman  shame you did not read the question, but instead used your continued biased view of BT to divert any responsibility of OFCOM.

Rather that your selected text, a less biased selection from the documents:

"The infrastructure used to deliver landline calls is old and needs to be replaced

Landline phone calls have traditionally been delivered over a network known as the public switched telephone network (PSTN). This network is old, and becoming harder and more expensive to maintain, so it needs to be replaced.

Replacing the PSTN now will ensure that we continue to have reliable home phone services available.

This is not happening only in the UK. These changes are taking place all over the world, with many countries having now completed them.

Whilst OFCOM appear to have some helpful documentation, I see no evidence that they will do something in April to help customers retain their landline number if they want to move to a Digital Voice service.

[#15]

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@Mustrum wrote:

Whilst OFCOM appear to have some helpful documentation, I see no evidence that they will do something in April to help customers retain their landline number if they want to move to a Digital Voice service.

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Depends on your ISP/CP - reading the information on my ISPs site, you will retain the 'phone number' if you switch to their VoIP service, although it seems they are one of the very few that will enable this - at this time.

I am still in two minds as to whether it is worthwhile for me - of my contacts, only two still use my landline, and I make no outgoing calls on it - even 0800 numbers