usage allowance

[#1]

Quote from: itsme

Quote from: rtjones2 If you are on the fibre trial and not on Pro then you are effectively wasting your time as you will only see the full line speed for all applications after midnight Why? I can't see why it's important whether it take 1 minute or 5 minutes to down load a file and you will not be aware of any stalling. Also it's not a controlled trial for traffic so it's pointless using the argument that you need full line speeds and no usage limits.

We obviously have different igeas of the whole concept of FTTC and increased speed...isn't it to be able to "do more"  - your example might be fine (1 minute or 5) but if you use your numbers an hours worth of data can be done in 12 minutes then i'm interested.
then of course there is the upload speed...which also is included in the overall bandwidth. The increase in upload speed is significant especially for applications such as uploading photos to online storage or printing services. 
I am interested why you signed up for the trial of increased speeds if you don't see it important how long a download takes

[#2]

Quote from: rtjones2

nibor is correct... if you are on any other package than pro then your maximum lines speed is restricted during peak hours (8am - midnight), which can potentially limit the maximum speeds from download servers such as microsoft update and the like to 2mb/s. .... If you are on the fibre trial and not on Pro then you are effectively wasting your time as you will only see the full line speed for all applications after midnight

It doesn't feel like I'm wasting my time on PlusNet Extra. Gaming and Streaming are line speed (besides web and email) at peak times. iPlayer HD seems to work now  and Sky player works nicely at peak times whereas neither did on my 2Mb ADSL connection .... 'buffering...". And my pings are consistently 17-22ms to bbc which my son is enjoying for his FPS on the xbox - it wasn't that reliable on ADSL.
For download servers and download sites I get line speed until 12pm (lunchtime) according to the definition for Extra. I don't use P2P at all.
I work at home a lot and I get full line speed during the day until 6pm on vpn too - as a software developer who generates quite large binaries I really notice the increased upload speed for this too.
I've downloaded software from Sony, just the other day in the afternoon using firefox and was getting 3.6MB/s which was remarkable compared to what I was used too.
24/09/2010  17:50      153,184,264 moviestudiope10.exe
I've exceeded 20GB a couple of times on this trial.....delighted to only be paying just over £11 to do it. My pattern of traffic obviously doesn't match yours and I'm happy on Extra with the restrictions Plusnet have in place because to a large extent I hardly notice them.
Plus as a multi-user house we can now all be doing things at the same time without really noticing each other. It's not all about one person consuming all the bandwidth "downloading".

Quote from: nibor

My package at the moment gives me 20gb, plus net pro, the standard BT infinity allowance is 40 gb.

From what I've seen other ISP's with larger download allowances with 'similar' prices like BT Infinity perform 'network management' I think they call it which is basically similar to what +net are doing (you'll see, for example that BT speed restrict P2P on all their products at peak times) - so I think BT infinity is not a good comparison as it should more likely be compared with Plusnet extra - 60GB.
For unlimited speeds at all times including peak the other ISP's I've seen require you to pay prices quite a bit higher than what I'm paying, certainly from the few I've seen that are offering retail fibre products.
Tom.

[#3]

Quote from: rtjones2

We obviously have different igeas of the whole concept of FTTC and increased speed...isn't it to be able to "do more"  - your example might be fine (1 minute or 5) but if you use your numbers an hours worth of data can be done in 12 minutes then i'm interested.

Again, why is downloading a file in 12 minutes vs a few hours important to you?
As I stated in my last post this trial is not a controlled trial of traffic throughput so why do you believe you should get unlimited bandwidth at full speed?

[#4]

for me its being able to play a game/film etc in 12 mins rather than  having to wait 2 -3 hours, quite simple really, you have a Ferrari you dont drive at around at 30mph everywhere do u ?

[#5]

But a Ferrari will not arrive at a destination any quicker than a Ford Mondeo unless you believe a Ferrari is privileged and normal speed laws do not apply.

[#6]

Anyways, back to the origional question and whom it was intended for  - Dave !

[#7]

Quote from: nibor

for me its being able to play a game/film etc in 12 mins rather than  having to wait 2 -3 hours, quite simple really, you have a Ferrari you dont drive at around at 30mph everywhere do u ?

You do if you're in a 30 zone, which you are during the day. 
FWIW, I am on the Extra package and don't see a problem with the limits, like the earlier post I want to get onto the trial for the reduced latency and the sharing of bandwidth rather than saturating it with downloads. (And if I do, I'll do it at night).

[#8]

Hi,
We're currently working on the product economics for FTTC to see what sort of product we could sell when we launch something. There are a lot of things we want to get out of the trial and how the faster speeds affect peoples' usage is obviously one of them. If the feedback is that the usage allowances are too low then that will obviously go in to the product design. Ultimately though whatever we offer as a product won't come in at a lower price than ADSL2+ simply because FTTC costs more to supply. We made a conscious decision at the start of the trial to let people stay on their existing products operate the trial at a loss rather than develop something that might be unsuitable. If you need the extra usage then by all means you can change across to Extra.
My question back would be what would you want the usage allowance to be and how much would you want to pay? We have 3 levels of product on Plusnet (Value, Extra and Pro) with different allowance, experience and price so if we were to match these on FTTC what would you want the usage and price to be?

[#9]

Dave can you confirm if the extra package download speed is limited to 20mb during the day ?

[#10]

Quote from: Asbo

put a range of different traffic type users currently on the trial on a test profile and tinker with the speed caps and usage limits to find what works and dose not work to keep most customers happy with the fibre product, obviously  it has to be a profitable product for PN, so it wouldn't be a huge usage increase

is it not possible to set a test profile up for the fttc users then, in my view letting the trailist's play with the different speed caps and usage profiles you setup for them to test drive would give you the best feedback.
obliviously that is mainly for value and extra as am sure you all ready know what the top monthly usage allowance you can offer on pro is

[#11]

These are the current rate limits on Extra:
http://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/download_speeds.shtml#extraSpeeds
Anything where it says line speed has no rate limit applied to it so you could get over 20Mbps (assuming all other factors such as source allow that speed).
Asbo - I can't set a test profile based on usage very easily unfortunately. I can see what people are doing and what products they are on so we can make judgements about what people want (e.g. if no-one on FTTC on Extra went over 40GB then 60GB would be plenty, but if lots of people were hovering in the late 50s we can assume that they are holding back the usage and that 60GB isn't enough). The feedback will also show similar things I'm sure.

[#12]

well on this unlimited usage 1.2 -1.7 mb PO line am running at 40-50gb a month day time usage (thats the average since march according to net limiter), i can see the need in my case for a fttc usage allowance of anything between 80gb - 100gb min to cope with my 37inch lcd living room hd needs (fed up of iplayer dropping me to a 750kbps  stream)
i take it the speed caps would have to be lowered on the extra package to be able to give that sort of usage increase
HD is what i will mainly be hammering any fttc connection with, plus take in account of that upto 10mb upload why the likes of spotify are running, mind am savvy enough to let net limiter choke that back but there will be lots of users out there that are unaware of apps using there upload in background and where they didnt notice on adsl 448kbps they sure will with 10mb being maxed

[#13]

Hi There,
The "Download Sites/Download Servers" does not apply to all downloads over t'internet and is from the servers listed here https://www.plus.net/support/broadband/speed_guide/download_servers.shtml.
Which is why on PlusNet Extra on Friday afternoon I could download a file from Sony and it downloaded at 3.6MB/s. I also downloaded Need For Speed World which is a 700MB+ download and it came down in ~ 4 minutes - not sure exactly what time but it wasn't overnight. Yum!
On the question of which product design fits, I don't know what the extra costs are for FTTC over ADSL. We are not heavy downloaders and on the whole would stream a movie rather than download it anyway (occasional sky player use, don't use iplayer much anyway - we tend to use the PVR for tv stuff). We're happy here with a PlusNet extra style product which I guess is cheaper to provide and so cheaper for us. Certainly I've used more on FTTC, this is partly because stuff just works now and we don't have to put up with the "buffering....." message. Whether it's just the early blushes of having a stable fast link or whether it will stay consistently higher is not sure yet.  But we are nowhere near 40GB, never mind 60GB. So far my best on fttc is 23GB, I might beat that this month but it won't reach 30GB. Virtually all of that is during the 9am-11pm time slot, not overnight.
My father-in -law is on PlusNet Value, frankly I don't think he could care about moving onto a Fibre link because he uses it for a bit of research(web browsing/email) and booking flights. I think there'll always be room for a £6 a month package because the low price was what attracted him to paying for a broadband link in the first place.
So, from here, something akin to what you already offer Dave would be fine.
Tom.

[#14]

Thanks for that info dave, was quite surprised on the restrictions that extra gives, I would say that in order to get a true picture of FTTC/FTTP usage , testers should be on a non restricted service such as pro, however I am weary about my usage and am not giving a true picture as i do not wish to risk going over my limit. This is not through P2P either whch in my view should be restricted anyway as its mostly used for downloading copyrighted material etc..
A couple of HD films on the PSN network can bump you up quite quickly, I also have a slingbox and the increased upload speed gives a much better picture when remote viewing, but again I am wary of using it as I can imagine it would rack up my limit also very quickly at 10mb upload.
BT infinity at £24.99 for unlimited seams reasonable, with a fair usage policy if individuals keep taking the Michael every month, which i can imagine would be through p2p usage.

[#15]

I have just switched from extra to pro and used 35mb last month. This would be fine under extra but would have cost an extra 10 pound with pro. Basically i will have to modify my usage to avoid additional charges for the remainder of the trial.