Power Off & DLM

[#1]

I'll bet there are still a few who remember undamped fuel gauges (often in foreign made vehicles, back in the day) where a tank that looked 3/4 full uphill, looked 1/4 tank down a steep one. Where you came to a stop at traffic lights and saw the gauge reacting to a splashing tank. Driving the car you needed a bit of savvy to work out roughly what was left in the tank and when to refuel on a journey.
If DLM on VDSL is more aggressive, its man-made that way and surely, like the simple rheostat fuel gauge, need a bit of damping?
All this speculation of how not to irritate it, or, having done so inadvertently, the living in hope that it will one day stir and respond favourably, has been discussed for months if not years. I think it's an issue, I suspect that others might too. A working solution cannot be difficult to implement surely, isn't it a simple software change? What harm does it do be underreacting?

[#2]

I've just updated the firmware in my Billion router. That involved two router reboots in fairly quick succession. The result is no real change in connection speeds!
Just thought I'd mention it! 

[#3]

Quote from: chrcoluk

Andy dont over rely on openreach for all your expert analysis, the same company gave you wrong information on ECI modem g.inp capability.

They've not given me any incorrect information.

Quote from: chrcoluk

Here is what is a fact not theory, some users such as adslmax only did one single reboot of their modem, exceeding the 30 sec advisory you stated and were hit by DLM.  Yet when the same guys waited 30mins the DLM didnt act.  There is documentation somewhere about DLM counting disconnections for 15 min intervals, hence the 30 min  advise.

Nope, adslmax/goldenfibre had DLM intervene for too many line errors (caused by the modem) - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132131.msg1153465.html#msg1153465
I believe there was another instance when he was trying new VDSL modem/routers and had many retrains which caused DLM to intervene.
DLM reviews 24 hour data, not 15 min data. The data itself is stored in 15 min bins.

[#4]

Quote from: AndyH

DLM reviews 24 hour data, not 15 min data. The data itself is stored in 15 min bins.

Just to clarify this. Are you saying that if I have enough disconnects within, let's say 30 minutes, for DLM to intervene, it will not do so immediately but will wait for the full 24 hour cycle to complete and then do so after?

[#5]

Yes. The fibre cabinets store the data and send it overnight to the Openreach management systems. The management systems review the data and if necessary, send a new line profile to be applied to your line (which gets applied between 01:00 and 06:00).

[#6]

Off topic - a bit - question
Given that profiles are sent from the central management system (at whatever level) why on earth can a reset only be carried out by an engineer visit to the cab

[#7]

Quote from: AndyH

Quote from: chrcoluk Andy dont over rely on openreach for all your expert analysis, the same company gave you wrong information on ECI modem g.inp capability. They've not given me any incorrect information. Quote from: chrcoluk Here is what is a fact not theory, some users such as adslmax only did one single reboot of their modem, exceeding the 30 sec advisory you stated and were hit by DLM.  Yet when the same guys waited 30mins the DLM didnt act.  There is documentation somewhere about DLM counting disconnections for 15 min intervals, hence the 30 min  advise. Nope, adslmax/goldenfibre had DLM intervene for too many line errors (caused by the modem) - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132131.msg1153465.html#msg1153465 I believe there was another instance when he was trying new VDSL modem/routers and had many retrains which caused DLM to intervene. DLM reviews 24 hour data, not 15 min data. The data itself is stored in 15 min bins.

incorrect again, we are talking about different events, and yes openreach did give you incorrect information, I will keep pointing this out until you run to the moderators again.

[#8]

Quote from: alext05

Quote from: AndyH DLM reviews 24 hour data, not 15 min data. The data itself is stored in 15 min bins. Just to clarify this. Are you saying that if I have enough disconnects within, let's say 30 minutes, for DLM to intervene, it will not do so immediately but will wait for the full 24 hour cycle to complete and then do so after?

what he said above is also incorrect. DLM can intervene at any time.

[#9]

Quote from: Oldjim

........ why on earth can a reset only be carried out by an engineer visit to the cab

Apparently that's not the case Jim, see my reply #58

[#10]

Quote from: Oldjim

Given that profiles are sent from the central management system (at whatever level) why on earth can a reset only be carried out by an engineer visit to the cab

What AO said here was incorrect - resets are performed remotely. Fibre cabinets are rarely opened and few have access to them.

Quote from: chrcoluk

incorrect again, we are talking about different events, and yes openreach did give you incorrect information, I will keep pointing this out until you run to the moderators again.

Which event are you referring to then? It's pointless if you cannot link to it.

Quote from: chrcoluk

what he said above is also incorrect. DLM can intervene at any time.

Source?
Here is mine - https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/customerzone/products/industryforums/copperproductswlrllu/downloads...

[#11]

Quote from: AndyH

Yes. The fibre cabinets store the data and send it overnight to the Openreach management systems. The management systems review the data and if necessary, send a new line profile to be applied to your line (which gets applied between 01:00 and 06:00).

Thanks. I have now read more about it.
What about some users claiming that it can intervene at any time? Are there any exceptions when this can happen?

[#12]

What people are probably referring to is the line being rate adaptive - rather than DLM intervening.

[#13]

I don't think that's always the case alext05, it's rather more complicated than that.

Quote from: AndyH

Quote from: chrcoluk Here is what is a fact not theory, some users such as adslmax only did one single reboot of their modem, exceeding the 30 sec advisory you stated and were hit by DLM.  Yet when the same guys waited 30mins the DLM didnt act.  There is documentation somewhere about DLM counting disconnections for 15 min intervals, hence the 30 min  advise. Nope, adslmax/goldenfibre had DLM intervene for too many line errors (caused by the modem) - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132131.msg1153465.html#msg1153465

Yeh, well, completely ignore the link to his post I gave earlier, in a thread YOU referred to,

Quote from: goldenfibre

...if the customer power down less than 30 minutes of swapping modem over or turn on and off too many times then DLM will act next morning around 4am to 6am to put interleaving on and reduced the sync rate.It's happen to me last year when my sync rate was dropped to 72Meg from 79Meg and interleaving was put ON and disabled fast path by DLM. It's was removed three days later.

[#14]

Quote from: Anotherone

Yeh, well, completely ignore the link to his post I gave earlier, in a thread YOU referred to,

I suggest you read the thread in question rather than jumping to conclusions again.
adslmax was playing around with different modems that caused DLM to intervene. Based on what he posted, the MTBE/R exceeded the threshold.
The snr rate was also higher than normal that resulted in a lower sync speed.

[#15]

Quote from: AndyH

Quote from: Oldjim Given that profiles are sent from the central management system (at whatever level) why on earth can a reset only be carried out by an engineer visit to the cab What AO said here was incorrect - resets are performed remotely. Fibre cabinets are rarely opened and few have access to them.

As I'd already replied to Jim in the immediately preceding post and pointed out the reply where I admitted that based on your's and Jockwav's post that wasn't the case, what exactly was the point of your comment except it seems just another attempt to try to undermine every post I make here and therefore another personal attack, just like this -

Quote from: AndyH

I suggest you read the thread in question rather than jumping to conclusions again. adslmax was playing around with different modems that caused DLM to intervene. Based on what he posted, the MTBE/R exceeded the threshold. The snr rate was also higher than normal that resulted in a lower sync speed.

You are obviously so intent on making a personal attack you did not read the thread to which I referred.
There is nothing in http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,139060.0.html from which my quoted GF post came. It was the last post on the thread.