Frequent disconnections, seemingly using WiFi

[#1]

I'm posting for help/advice please regarding frequent device disconnections, including my work laptop.  Long post but I'm trying to give as much information as possible.

Within the house, devices disconnect very frequently and It’s very unusual to be able to watch a film on Netflix without it stopping.  The family complained and I noticed it when using a tablet but it’s working from home that has really highlighted the problem. I get disconnected from calls and have to log back into the company network.  For calls which I'm running I now have to apologise at the start of the call, and people know I'm likely to drop mid call.

I notice the laptop disconnections pretty often, typically when on call, around half a dozen times during the day.  It may be disconnecting more often with me not noticing as I'm typing a document etc.  The disconnects are usually only for a couple of seconds.

This was a problem with Sky, before joining PlusNet. I tried changing the channel, splitting the frequency, and using a pair of TP-Link Powerline adapters.  Sky could see no issue and said that if I wanted an engineering/Openreach visit it would likely be chargeable (£100 ish)

I discussed the problem with PlusNet before joining, and again recently. It was suggested that there may be competition for bandwidth in the house so I have now re-contracted for the fastest package, but there's been no change.

So, I'm tied in for the foreseeable future and need to make things work. I have tried the 17170 quiet line test, am connected to the BT master/test socket, and re-tried the Powerline adapters for my work laptop.

Today I have been testing with my laptop directly connected to my router, and there have been no disconnections.  That leaves me working while standing up with the laptop on a utility room cupboard with the washer and dryer in the background.  Not ideal and doesn’t help with the other issues.

It’s a medium sized house (some would say large), over 100 years old so a lot of the internal walls are solid not plasterboard. The hub is central to the house, on a cupboard near to the main incoming socket (there’s really nowhere else I can put it, it was previously in the cupboard, which is build around the socket).

My work laptop has a download speed of 66Mb (14Mb upload) when directly connected to the router (Which? Broadband speed checker)

For what it’s worth, I tried some apps to see what the signal was like in the room where I was working. The point was about 10m laterally from the hub, upstairs.

Netspot initially switched to data. I disabled data. On the next try it errored. On the third try it gave a speed of 0.65 Mbps.  In the utility it gave 16.87 Mbps.  After changing the channel it gave 6.61.  A second test put it right back to 0.02, after another errored test.

OpenSignal gave 1.36Mbps upstairs and 25.1Mbps in the utility. 

ScanFi gave a scan chart where the signal varies between 14 Mbps and 2Mbps upstairs, constantly oscillating.

WIFI Heatmap gives the 'signal level' upstairs as -62dBm. That seems pretty steady but the 'link speed' varied wildly between 72 Mbits/s and 5Mbits/s (2.4 MHz).  The 'heat' indicator was mostly amber but sometimes red.

When using Wi-Fi Analyser, I noticed that there was another signal using channel 1, so I have changed ours to channel 6.  It was from an EE box, and was actually stronger than from ours.  Our house is detached, with the neighbour on that side being at least 5m away.  After changing the channel it gave the signal level as -59dBm.

I'm not technical so apologies if this is not useful.

I searched through previous posts here for 'disconnect', going back to 2014 / 2011 and was impressed by the ability of PlusNet staff on here to respond after checking the person's broadband service. Some of it got very technical, jargon I didn’t understand.

I'm hoping for similar help, but you may have to keep the replies pretty simple (but slightly more explanatory than 'your wif-fi [-Censored-]')

Thank you.

[#2]

Not sure this is adding much, but I've just measured the distances more accurately.  The desk upstairs is about 5.5m laterally from the hub, and the point where I was doing the tests was 7.5m

[#3]

Perhaps I should also add that I had the same problem while working downstairs in the kitchen, just 6m away from the hub.

I'm also using a (Sky) booster upstairs.

[#4]

@semiartificial 

I don't know if this is of assistance:  https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Distributing-Data-around-Larger-Proper...

[#5]

Looking at the reported data speeds, this appears to be a FTTC service and thus the topic would be better served (supported) if on the fibre board - I have asked the mods to consider moving it.

To some extent you have pointed the problem to be within your home which is not within the support scope of the ISP, but generally if they can they will offer advice.

This issue needs to be 'layered' to find resolutions.  From your various bits of detail, the elements which might be problematic (in no particular order) are...

• Your PC
• Your application connection to work (is it using VPN)?
• Your ethernet over power adapters
• Your power supply
• Your router
• The telephone line
• Environmental interference
• Exchange capacity
• Concurrent use within the home

You have advised that the quite line test is clear, but how often do you do them?  Are you doing a QLT when you notice the issue?

Have you examined the router diagnostic log / looked at the system up time and xDSL session time?  If these are long (certainly if they extend over times you have perceived disconnections) then that suggests that the issue is not connection stability or speed which is the area an ISP will largely look at.

When you perceive the disconnections, do the Ethernet over power adapters indicate that they are still connected?  It might be helpful if you were to set up a monitor on your PC running in the background checking the connectivity to the router.  In a CMD shell run the following command...

ping -t 192.168.1.254

Alternatively you could install router stats which has a ping plotter which will do this (see the link below).  Note that if you are using a VPN then you might not be able to ping the router, in which case ping 8.8.8.8 which is a Google DNS.

Are the 2.4GHz and 5GHz wifi bands using the same SSID?  Some client devices are very bad at remaining on one or the other band when they both use the same SSID.  Some users have found that giving them distinct names is helpful.

Similarly in some environments, where the wifi is configured for auto-channel selection frequent channel changing can be problematic.  Examination of the local spectrum using something like inSIDDer and finding the least used of channels 1, 6 or 11 and setting that as a fixed channel can be beneficial.

What is the WiFi NIC in the laptop?  I have been testing a router and have noticed that the NIC in one of my devices does not play nicely on WiFi ... whilst the other laptop sat next to it, stays connected without issue.

How does the Netflix device connect to the router?

The house is a 100 years old - how modern is the electrical wiring?  Wiring issues might impact the performance of Ethernet over power adapters - they certainly do not work well if plugged in to extension sockets.

The Plusnet hub one is a BTHH5a so not the latest technology.  Some suggest that the WiFi performance on the later BT hubs is somewhat better.  BTHH6 devices can be found on the internet for very little money.  Elsewhere there is a good article on configuring them for use with Plusnet.

One of the upsides of the BTHH5a is that it does play nicely with RouterStats (the later version do not) so it would be practical to set up detailed monitoring of the router's stats.  That will very clearly show if there is an external connectivity issue.  If there is no appearance of a disconnection or variation in error counts during what you perceive to be a problem, then you can take the line performance out of the equation.  Intermittent line errors are difficult to identify (typically are not there when the line is tested) therefore clear evidence of line noise (insufficient to cause the line to drop) is essential to resolving the issue.

[#6]

@Townman 

Thanks very much for your time and thought with that.

There's a lot for me to work through so I'll do that and get back to you.

There's not much I can do about my work laptop though.  It's provided by my company and the OS is locked down. It uses Cisco AnyConnect secure VPN to connect to the company network.  It’s a HO Probook 640 G5, a few month's old.

The house was rewired by the previous owner 22 years ago. The kitchen wiring is 11 years old.

The Powerline adapters are a few years old, from when I was having similar issues with Sky. The are AV500 Mini Powerline adapters, model TL-PA411

Thanks again

[#7]

@Baldrick1 

Thanks for your help.

Ethernet:

I did buy a 30m ethernet cable to hook up the downstairs PS3, when we were doing a bit of online gaming after my wife went to bed, packing it up after the session.  I could revert to working in the kitchen and using that cable, but it leaves a trailing wire through the utility, hall and kitchen which would go down like a lead balloon with my wife, even if I packed it up in the evening. Also a serious trip hazard.

As for properly fitting Ethernet, I would have to ask a professional as my wife is very fussy about how things look and she quite rightly distrusts my appalling DIY skills.

Powerline:

I have been using these, a few years old now. They are AV500 Mini Powerline adapters, model TL-PA411

Extender:

I'm currently using a Sky booster upstairs, which is 2m laterally away from the hub, model SB601

Mesh:

I've not looked into that yet.

[#8]

Moderators Note

This topic has been moved from ADSL Broadband to Fibre

[#9]

Thank you Dvorak.

I've just checked and my contract is for Unlimited Fibre Extra, to February 2022

[#10]

@Townman 

working through your helpful post:

Ive only carried out a QLT once. That was not ideal as it used a portable phone, not a handset directly connected to the filter on the master socket

I've not looked at logs, but will do. Next week I'm going to persist in working directly connected in the utility to see if I get any disconnections.

i have now changed the SSID of the 5GHz band

I changed the channel to 6 while I was testing yesterday as I saw that there were other devices on 1 and 11.

Netflix runs on a TV app via Wi-Fi. It’s 9m away from the hub. I've just reconnected it to the 5GHz band to try that

The Powerline adapters are directly into a mains socket, not an adapter

Routerstats: I have downloaded both versions. Which should I use, and which router should I select?

Thanks very much

[#11]

Well, after looking through this forum, I think I should have started my first post with “Like so many others ...”

PlusNet called me back today to check on the results of my directly connected test, which I said had shown no disconnects. They are sending a new router in case it’s faulty. I asked about the BT hub 6. He said it was definitely a better router and that if the replacement was no better, getting one would be a good plan. On the face if it, PlusNet would do well do release a Hub 2 based on this, it seems like it would reduce the calls they get.

I think my plan going forward is this.

1. Follow Townman's advice and Install routerstats on a laptop which I've connected to the hub, once I know how to set it up and understand the results.

2. Work directly connected next week, despite standing up and the washer churning away, to see if I get any more disconnections.  Refer back to PlusNet if I do.

3. Install the new PlusNet router when it arrives (same setup as now, channel 6, split bands) and see how that works on Wi-Fi

4. If no change, buy a BT Hub 6, and look for advice on here about setting it up. 

If I've missed something, please do suggest it

[#12]

@semiartificial 

Sounds like a reasonable plan. However a suggestion: can you work somewhere more convenient if you use your powerline units in place of or in series with the Ethernet cable? If you read through this you will find advice on where they should work well  https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Powerline-Unit-Performance/m-p/1607450...

If you go for a Smarthub 6 then if you can drop on one there are more setting options on the Business version.  Setting instructions are here.  https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Router/Using-the-BT-Smarthub-6-on-a-Plusnet-Account/td-p/1587673

[#13]

@Baldrick1 

Re: Powerline:  I tried to follow advice when first using them (so the main unit is powered from the same double socket as the hub and Ethernet connected, with the slave unit paired and in a mains socket on the same circuit).  PlusNet have already stated said that I need to be directly connected to the hub for them to think I have a line fault, so I'm sticking with that for a while.

When I get the new router I'll try both Wi-Fi and Powerline again, but back in the room upstairs where I hoped to work.

BT Smarthub 6:  I see the business version is quite a bit more expensive then the home version.  I haven’t tried to work out what the difference is, sorry, but would you say it’s worth it?

[#14]

@semiartificial 

I agree entirely that Plusnet need you to be commected via Ethernet before accepting that there is a fault. I was approaching it from the other direction, if you have no problems using Poweline then there is no network fault and you can get on with your work without too much inconvenience.

Regarding the Smarthub I had not realised.how expensive they currently are. The going rate a little while ago was only about a fiver more for a business version. I paid less than £20 for mine.

The main advantage as far as most are concerned is that you can choose your lwn DNS servers rather having to use the Plusnet default ones.

I guess that the price will only continue to rise as more Plusnet customers buy them and since last December BT contracts have stopped giving them away but effectively loan them and charge customers  about £50 if they leave and don't return the hub.

[#15]

Just a follow up to this.

Like many others, I have found that changing my router, in my case to a BT Home Hub 6, has pretty much solved the problem.  

I've had three or four disconnects with my work laptop, far less than previously.

Streaming, e.g. Netflix and BBC iPlayer has been noticeably better.

Thanks to everyone for the help and advice.