ONT remote from CSP

[#1]

Openreach have just laid fibre to my road and my account says that I can upgrade to FTTP. So far so good.

The CSP would be on the front wall of the house, fed by an underground cable.

My master socket is in a cupboard about 8 metres from where the cable enters the house. The existing cable runs though a hole in the wall directly to the underfloor space. Then through some trunking to the master socket.

I would like the ONT to be in the same location as the old master socket as it's the centre of my wired network and mains is available. Are there any problems doing this?  If I was doing this sort of thing myself I would simply use the existing cable as a drawstring to pull in the fibre cable. Is this something the OR technician is likely to be willing to do? Any other foreseeable problems?

[#2]

@ppppenguin 

Why not simply leave the ONT at the front of the house and install your own Ethernet cable to where you want to position your router? 

Otherwise you will need to ask the installation technician nicely, I understand that the maximum distance between the CSP and ONT is 10m so it sounds marginal even if they are willing to try.

[#3]

@ppppenguin 

As stated, the router gets connected to the ONT by ethernet cable so can go anywhere you like.

You speak to the engineer on the day to see what they're happy to do. If there's copper wiring tacked to he wall before it reaches the hole I would suggest having some duct available which can quickly put in place to protect the incoming fibre cable.

As ever, you simply don't know until the day of install. A good engineer will always try and work with you.

Brian

[#4]

@Baldrick1 Thanks for the suggestion. There are two reasons why this wouldn't be very convenient.

1: There isn't a mains socket conveniently close to the point where the ONT would back on to the CSP. In any case I'd want to use one UPS to back up both the ONT and my own router.

2: The existing OR cable runs from outside to directly under my living room floor. It would be no problem drawing in some CAT5e from outdoors to my router but rather awkward to get it to the ONT. Because lifting the living room floor isn't an option I'd need to run the the CAT5e outdoors and then back in to the ONT.

My understanding is that the 10m limit is set by the optical cables carried by OR techs as standard. There's no technical limit on the length of fibre between the ONT and CSP.

I think this very much a case of asking the OR guy nicely and giving him a hand with pulling in the cable.

[#5]

@bmc Thanks for your comment. It's very much as I thought - be nice to the OR tech and hope (s)he's having a good day.

[#6]

@ppppenguin 

A couple of things come to mind.

You say the cable comes underground and enters your property directly into the living room. Is there any duct involved or is it buried direct. That might be a problem for the install. Have you looked at the following ?

https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL

With WBC FTTP in the left hand column what does it say to the right - available or KCI2?

What does the narrative say about the install directly below the results window?

It might just be possible to get the CSP fitted inside in the cupboard. This would depend on the engineer and if the they had what's required in their van. I'll try and dig aout a couple of photos later of recent installs whare this was done.

Brian

[#7]

@bmc The existing OR cable comes out of the ground just outside my front wall and goes to an ancient junction box mounted on the wall about a foot above  the ground. Then the cable from the junction box goes down the wall and through a hole into the underfloor space. It runs loose in the underfloor space to a cupboard. I can easily lift the floor in the cupboard. I would have no objection to having the CSP in the cupboard if that's the most convenient way for OR to do it. 

From the checker you suggested:

"Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG partial Direct In Ground.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered."

[#8]

@ppppenguin 

Note: using the ethernet cable you could use POE units to pass power on to the ONT in a remote location, for me I purchased a DC Jack 5.5mm x 2.1mm Power Male to Female cable as the run required was only 4 metres.

[#9]

@ppppenguin 

This is really going to come down to the engineer on the day - I think!

Given what it says about the install does it say KCI2 to the right of WBC FTTP. This indicates a survey is required before work commences as it's likely digging is required.

If you are present when (or if) the survey takes place then you get a chance to find out what can be doe,

Brian

[#10]

@Dan_the_Van Thanks for the PoE suggestion. That would solve the lack of mains socket. As I said previously, it's a bit of a nuisance getting a cable from my network cupboard to *indoors* at the place where the ONT would be mounted close to the CSP. All these things can be solved (I'm a chartered electrical engineer and also handy with tools) but I'm looking for the path of least resistance. The pun is intentional:-)

My experience of OR guys is that they're usually very good and helpful. The last one I had visit spent a fair while thinking about the problem - his testgear (what I think of as a time-domain reflectometer) wasn't showing the fault. In the end he used his experience and eyeballs to find a small damage in the outdoor cable. Water had got in and partially corroded the cable. The fix was then obvious and easy.

[#11]

@bmc  This is what it says:

WBC FTTP	Up to 1000	Up to 220	--	Available	KCI2 Assure

Does that mean a survey is needed? It's about 8m from the pavement to my front wall. I've no idea if the OR cable is in a duct or buried direct. Fortunately there's earth by a hedge rather than paving between my front wall and the pavement.

[#12]

@ppppenguin 

The CSP would be on the front wall of the house, fed by an underground cable.

My master socket is in a cupboard about 8 metres from where the cable enters the house. The existing cable runs though a hole in the wall directly to the underfloor space. Then through some trunking to the master socket.

If this is a continuous duct then there would probably be no problem pulling the external fibre all the way through to your preferred location and using an internal CSP. We have recently had an example of this where the Openreach tech installed the splice in the redundant recessed master socket wall box and mounted the ONT on top.

However, if the duct to the property emerges outside and then the cable passes through a hole before entering a different duct, then you might encounter resistance.

Note that there is a maximum distance specified between the fibre entering the property and the availability of mains to power the ONT of 1m. Consequently, it’s likely that the entry point to your property will need to be elsewhere to the end of the duct, probably by routing the fibre on the outside to a position where it will meet this requirement. Maybe a point in your favour?

I was faced with a similar problem. I selected a location for the fibre to enter my property. I pre-installed a CAT 6 Ethernet cable from this location into the central hall. This has necessitated in me having to get two UPSs. A small one for the ONT and another for the router.

[#13]

@ppppenguin 

Yes, a survey is required. I don't know if you get notified about it.

If you're in the mood you could (carefully) dig down the wall to find where the copper cable enters your property. If, as stated it's into a duct then that would make it easier to have the external cable plulled all the way to the cupboard. You just don't know.

You could phone the PlusNet Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632 to ask for information. Specifically do you get notified when the survey is planned. Note there would be no specific time on this, just a day.

Brian

[#14]

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@ppppenguin wrote:

"Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG partial Direct In Ground.

---

Time to look for a new route for a duct that will emerge close to an internal power socket. You can then, once it's installed run an external CAT 5e or better Ethernet cable back outside and through the original route of the old connection.

Be sure that the Ethernet cable is either external grade or fully enclosed in trunking. I have experience of the sheath of internal cable that has been exposed to sunlight rotting away. 

[#15]

@ppppenguin 

Found the pictures I was looking for.

The first two are from an install in NI. The outer shell covers the original master socket wall box where the incoming fibre cable is. The green "pigs tail" connector is then splice onto it. You can see the fibre cable wrapped around - excess cable is needed to allow the fibre to reach the splicing machine.

The last picture is actually off Google but the poster stated it was like their install which they had then covered up with office furniture.

Brian