Can't send Email to the same address too often

[#1]

@rehtnap2023 

It is not the who to, but the logon details.

The webmail service looks as though it is being restarted.

[#2]

@Townman 

I eventually managed to type my password into curl correctly, and it showed no problems.

I changed my port for relay.force9.net from 465 & SSL/TLS to 587 & StartTLS ... and that worked!

I reverted to port 465 & SSL/TLS ... and that worked as well!! So something has been fixed.

I will now change all my devices to use the recommended 587 StartTLS.

Thanks for all your help with escalating these problems. 

Edit: All our Android devices using Samsung Mail seem not to allow StartTLS, just "SSL", & if I change port to 587 it returns error "Cannot verify account, Security error occurred. Server certificate not trusted."  so I will leave them at 465.

[#3]

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@Townman wrote:

@balvack2 

For those users who have not had detailed communication on migration, they ought not have seen any differences.  It would be fair to say that some of the preparation works has encountered unexpected outcomes.

The most recent plank of migration preparation happened last Monday, not Friday.  I saw intermittent 452 errors earlier than Friday last week, but the issue was not reproduceable.  I suspect that as the weekend approached, folks were busier on email and the issue became more pronounced.  I do wonder to what extent that now the issue is more widely known about, users are hammering the service to see iffy is fixed ... and thereby causing mayhem for users in general.

I would be a fair observation that the new service is more stringent than that which it replaces, so anyone (user, device  or email client application) not doing things to proper current standards might be encountering issues.  Older Apple devices not supporting current standards on several fronts is sadly commonplace.

In that vein I would recommend NOT using deprecated SMTP standards: the correct port for SMTP message submission is port 587 with STARTTLS.

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My client is set to 'Automatically manage connection settings".

[#4]

Thanks for the update. I've not been online since yesterday so will let you know of any further problems.

ETA: I managed to successfully send an email at 3 minutes to the hour so it's looking OK so far. thanks.

[#5]

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@Townman wrote:

@offscotland wrote:

This means bog all to me....

@offscotland - might that possibly be because it was not addressed to you ...

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@balvack2 wrote:

READ Sep 16 12:47:26.056 [kCFStreamSocketSecurityLevelTLSv1_2] -- host:relay.plus.net -- port:465 -- socket:0x600003ffc360 -- thread:0x6000009101c0
452 <name@address-redacted> recipient rejected - too many recipient in last hour

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Back reading the topic, @balvack2 indicated that they are using port 465 for SMTP message submission; port 456 is deprecated and thus not compliant with currect standards, which was the subject of the post addressed to @balvack2.

The post sought to advise that current standards should be adopted to avoid the risk of encountering difficulties in interworking with services applying strict compliance to current standards, as has been seen with out-of-date MAC platforms.  As someone with donkey's years of computer experience, I am certain that the essentiality of maintaining and complying with current standards will be very familiar to you.

No one is expecting anyone to do anything they are not likely to know / understand.  Most compliant systems will not use 465 anyway and those that do will most likely have been configured manually so those impacted will know already what needs to be done.

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My client is set to "Automatically manage connection settings" so I assumed the SMTP server would set the appropriate parameters. I've not chosen or set port 456 or 465 anywhere. I only (re-)entered my plus accountname/password as part of trying to identify/fix why I couldn't send email last week,

[#6]

This has been happening to me, too, and I have now been 'blacklisted'. I cannot send emails.

[#7]

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@balvack2 wrote:

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My client is set to 'Automatically manage connection settings".

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That creates a lot of opportunity for things being wrong.  Some clients do a fairly good job of this, but what might appear to work is not necessarily correct.  Take for example SMTP...

1. smtp.plus.net
2. port 25 / 465 / 587
3. with (STARTTLS) or without encryption

... will all work, but not correctly, but ...

1. is not compatible with the security certificate - it should be relay.plus.net (though if [3] is not encrypted, no issue will be observed)
2. 25 is intended only for SMTP MX to MX message relay (not email client message submission); 465 is the obsolete SSL port for message submission; 587 is the RFC complaint port for message submission, with or without encryption
3. Using encryption alongside (1) and (2) is a matter of choice, though it would be wise to do so, but on older environments which do not support the current security standards, doing so can open a can of worms

It the user controls the configuration, then they can be certain that it is correct and removes potential ambiguity which attempting to diagnose failure.  Such is why the server connectivity tests use the appropriate configuration, not others which might just happen to work ... for some users, but not others.

[#8]

Still getting the "too many recipient in last hour error here" today. Its causing no end of issues as we have to send quite a lot of emails for work.

Don't really understand the tech beyond setting up basic email on the Mac mail client so struggling.

[#9]

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@mavison wrote:

@Townman 

..

Edit: All our Android devices using Samsung Mail seem not to allow StartTLS, just "SSL", & if I change port to 587 it returns error "Cannot verify account, Security error occurred. Server certificate not trusted."  so I will leave them at 465.

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Firstly, great to see that I can now send emails.  On Android, I'm seeing the same as @mavison - cert errors on port 587, necessitating moving to port 465.

As previously reported, I think the cert for relay.force9.net has the wrong server name - should be relay.force9.net:

subject=jurisdictionC = GB, businessCategory = Private Organization, serialNumber = 03279013, C = GB, L = Sheffield, O = Plusnet plc, CN = relay.plus.net

[#10]

The issue I have is If the settings are managed automatically I can't tell how it's configured - apart from an expert like yourself being able to tell what port was being used from the log info I provided.

I'm reluctant to start fiddling with settings (I haven't dared uncheck the Automatically manage setting box) in case it breaks something. And also we were advised elsewhere not to change things at the client end as it would hinder investigation of the issues.

If I've misunderstood and someone can advise on what I could/should do to be 'compliant', here's how my account configuration looks at the moment. (MailServerConfig snapshot.jpg attached)

[#11]

My sending seems to have recovered at last. Thanks for all your advice!

[#12]

Ah, that Android standards deficiency - STARTTLS not supported!!!

I do not recall the report of the claim that the certificate has the wrong server name: relay.plus.net is the principal but the other brands are aliases specified aliases.  But I will raise it.

[#13]

@balvack2 

Which email client is that?

The server names are correct, but port numbers and encryption are not shown.  One will just have to hope that the client's guess work is correct!

[#14]

@Baldrick1 Thanks!

[#15]

Apologies @Townman but more complete chaos today trying to send emails from my userame@account.plus.net address.

Nothing to do with the earlier 452 and 554 errors.

Please note my system has been working properly in recent dayso on Outlook/PC. iPhone Mail app and webmail.

NOTHING abohut my setting has changed.

I test each day by sending an email to myself at my Plusnet address, copied to my Gmall address.

This week all has been well. Today :I've done the test on two separate occasions because the fault was different each time.

In both cases, the message were delivered to my Gmail address, if rather slowly.

Neither message has been delivered to my Plusnet address.

The first error message came from Outlook.

Task; Synchronbsing subscribed folders for xxxxx@account.plus.com reported error (0x800CCC0E: "Outlock cannot synchronise subscribed folders for xxxxx@account.plus.com . reported error (0x800CCC0E): Outlook cannot synchronise subscribed folders for xxxxx@account.plus.com. Error: Cannot connect to the server.

The second error message came when I tried  sending simillar messages again.

Cannot Get Mail, The mail server mail.plus.net is not responding. Verify that youhave entered the correct account in mail settings. Network error (POSIX 96)

Needless to say all my mail settings are correct and in accordance with frequent posts on this forum specifying the correct settings.

I know Superusers and PN staff are working hard to stabilise our email service, but the number of different errors plaguing us would be almost comical if i wasn't so depressingly  disruptive.

PS:  And just to make matters worse, Webmail has virtually collapsed: Most of the time it;s impossible to log in - and when I can log in occasionaly, it's impossible to compose and send a message.