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Problems sending to gmail

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

Yes. Thank you for that @RealAleMadrid.

Perhaps I should be more explicit in my thinking? So here goes...

Plusnet is in the middle of transferring their email service to a third party, Greenby. Many email users are at present having a wide range of problems with the email service they rely on. Among these, but not the only ones, are reported high levels of spam email being received (which I have not experienced) and also delivery failure to recipients in certain email service domains - mainly Gmail and MS (which I have experienced myself).

The current popular explanation on here for all of these issues seems to be:

"It's all due to that terrible Greenby!"

I may be wrong but I don't think this is correct. At least as it applies to the two issues spam & delivery failure. I think these two issues (spam & email delivery failure) are likely related. How?

Part1

Why are emails being not being delivered to the recipients?

Because the recipient email domains are returning them to senders as 'Likely unsolicited email' (i.e. possible Spam)

Why do the email domains think these incoming emails are likely spam?

Likely because the sending email domain (Plusnet IPs) is blacklisted due to a 'poor reputation'

Why does the Plusnet email domain now have a 'poor reputation'?

Likely because lots of spam emails have come from the Plusnet email domain in the past.

How/why has lots of spam been generated from Plusnet email domains in the past?

I don't know exactly, but there are plenty of options!

This can still be true if nobody who is a current Plusnet/Greenby email account user is guilty of sending any spam now .

Part 2

For spam to 'work' the spammers need to, in the first instance, have a list of valid emails to send their spam to. I am sure there are many ways of obtaining lists of such 'valid' addresses, very likely lists are on sale for a fee on the Dark Web. We also now live in a time of AI Bots, these can go out and for instance, harvest target information from across the Internet. e.g. valid email addresses.

The main idea behind not getting spammed (by email of phone) is to avoid at all cost getting on any of these lists as a current valid user. With email, one sure way of getting on such lists is to publish your email address on the Internet!
As an individual you are setting yourself up to get spam; collectively, all of the above applies. And here we are...

rogermhunt
Rising Star
Posts: 63
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎20-10-2009

Re: Problems sending to gmail

Well thank you for that information. Had you explained that in your initial reply to me, I might have understood better.

rogermhunt
Rising Star
Posts: 63
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎20-10-2009

Re: Problems sending to gmail

It would have been nice if he'd explained his point instead of making a short vague remark about my post (which I felt was providing useful information for people with 'the gmail issue').

madswitcher
Pro
Posts: 387
Thanks: 89
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: Problems sending to gmail

This is not just a 'gmail' problem.  Sending emails to anyone at mac.com has a similar problem of getting blocked.   Still no action from Greenby support on this as well.

XXXX @mac.com: host mx02.mail.icloud.com[17.57.152.5] said: 554 5.7.1
    [BS01] Message rejected due to local policy. Please visit
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204137. Txn ID
    d47617d4-47e8-4e2c-914f-7aab96b6a9e1 (in reply to end of DATA command)

Do the support folk from Greenby monitor or contribute to these forums?

Peter_JW
Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 69
Thanks: 58
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎10-12-2024

Re: Problems sending to gmail

Thanks for sharing these additional details, @madswitcher.

Could you let me know some further information, such as the mail headers and any bounce back messages? 

If these contains personal details, send this to me in a private message

Details on finding this can be found in the Obtaining email headers page. 

Peter

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

I'm getting rather tired of this (Gmail blocking). I previously sent off an email to Gmail with an example of a returned delivery email from Gmail. It wasn't bounced but have had no response - not that surprising.

I have now sent a second, general and blunter, email to 'Mr Google'. This time I had the foresight to turn on Delivery Confirmation flags in Greenby webmail and I see it has, quite quickly, been delivered. Whatever good it does...

 

BTW. I have run Plusnet and Greenby domains through Spamhaus, and they all get a clean bill of health!

SPAMHAUS
"plusnet.com has no issues"

"imap.plus.net has no issues"

"relay.plus.net has no issues"

"<My Plusnet User ID>plusnet.com has no issues"

"greenby.com has no issues"

 

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

..."<My Plusnet User ID>plusnet.com has no issues" should be:

SPAMHAUS

"<My Plusnet User ID>.plus.com has no issues"

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

OTOH...

Domain Reputation Report for plusnet.com

https://truelist.io/tools/domain-reputation-checker

55
Grade: D
Overall Reputation Score

Email Authentication
Score: 0/40

No SPF record found
No DMARC record found

 

Domain Reputation Report for relay.plus.net

https://truelist.io/tools/domain-reputation-checker

25
Grade: F
Overall Reputation Score

Email Authentication
Score: 0/40

No SPF record found
No DMARC record found

 

Greenby?

Domain Reputation Report for greenby.com

https://truelist.io/tools/domain-reputation-checker

70
Grade: B
Overall Reputation Score

Email Authentication

Score: 15/40

SPF record configured
No DMARC record found
 
 
And, if you really want a giggle:

Domain Reputation Report for <My Plusnet User ID>.plus.com

Domain Reputation Checker | Check Domain Blacklist Status | Truelist

70
Grade: B
Overall Reputation Score

 

Email Authentication

Score: 15/40

SPF record configured
No DMARC record found
pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

With the above in mind - perhaps the current Plusnet email delivery problems are not, at least directly, linked to Spam originating from Plusnet email accounts or servers? :

Email sender guidelines

https://support.google.com/a/answer/81126?sjid=17159550531650749106-EU

"The guidelines in this article can help you successfully send and deliver email to personal Gmail accounts. Starting in 2024, email senders must meet the requirements described here to send email to Gmail personal accounts. A personal Gmail account is an account that ends in @gmail.com or @googlemail.com."

Email authentication requirements & guidelines
"We require that you set up these email authentication methods for your domain:

All senders: SPF or DKIM
Bulk senders: SPF, DKIM, and DMARC"

 

Gmail and Yahoo!'s New Sender Requirements

https://mxtoolbox.com/c/landing/gmail-and-yahoo-new-dmarc-spam-sender-requirements

What You Need to Know

1. SPF, DKIM, and DMARC records are now required
Since the new rules went into enforcement on April 1, 2024, your domain now needs to have all three (3) DNS records correctly set up in order to not risk getting your messages rejected or marked as spam.

2. Spam Rates Must be Below 0.3%
Yes, that's right, you're not reading that wrong, 0.3%. If the percentage of emails that are flagged automatically or reported by recipients is 0.3% or higher of your emails sent to Gmail or Yahoo recipients, Gmail and Yahoo will reject your emails or mark them as spam.

3. One-Click Unsubscribe
In addition to the requirements to have DMARC/SPF/DKIM and to keep spam complaint rates below <0.3%, the other big requirement out of Gmail and Yahoo! Mail is that all emails MUST make unsubscribing a One-Click Process.

 

rogermhunt
Rising Star
Posts: 63
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎20-10-2009

Re: Problems sending to gmail

I'm now back from a week's holiday and as Greenby told me more than a week ago that the issue aimed to be fixed within a week (i.e. April 17th) I had hoped that it would have been fixed.

Unfortunately, I tried to send to a gmail account today and it's still rejected:

The mail system

<universeofcolourphotography@gmail.com>: host
gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[142.250.101.26] said: 550-5.7.1 [213.5.182.252
12] Gmail has detected that this message is likely 550-5.7.1 unsolicited
mail. To reduce the amount of spam sent to Gmail, this 550-5.7.1 message
has been blocked. For more information, go to 550 5.7.1
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
5a478bee46e88-2e53a88e916si72447251eec.29 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA
command)

I've chatted to the Greenby AI help this morning, and all it has said is that the issue should have been fixed, but if not I should provide details, which I did. It's response was that it is transferring me to agent and that they will be with me shortly !

Is the 'gmail issue' still affecting other Greenby (ex Plusnet) users ?

PhilipHeyes
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 584
Thanks: 204
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Registered: ‎10-11-2021

Re: Problems sending to gmail

@rogermhunt

Which SMTP server is failing to send to Gmail ?

We also saw the same message this morning trying to write to a Gmail email and sending via a Greenby hosted SMTP server.

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail


@rogermhunt wrote:

Is the 'gmail issue' still affecting other Greenby (ex Plusnet) users ?


Standby... TESTING! TESTING! No results in as yet.

rogermhunt
Rising Star
Posts: 63
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎20-10-2009

Re: Problems sending to gmail

After having received a Mail Delivery Failure earlier this afternoon, I received a confirmation email from the recipient two hours later to say that they had received it successfully ! Bizarre!

I've updated Greenby and I won't go into their response right now because at their suggestion I'm about to send another email to the same gmail  recipient. If that works, then it looks as though the issue 'may' have been fixed.

pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

Hah! The result is in. And it's not good:

<********@gmail.com>: host
    alt1.gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[192.178.128.26] said: 550-5.7.1
    [213.5.181.29      12] Gmail has detected that this message is likely
    550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail. To reduce the amount of spam sent to Gmail,
    this 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked. For more information, go to 550
    5.7.1  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=UnsolicitedMessageError
    586e51a60fabf-42fed564da5si1476884fac.207 - gsmtp (in reply to end of DATA
    command)
pvmb
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,309
Thanks: 233
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎12-02-2014

Re: Problems sending to gmail

So why exactly has Gmail decided that my single, person to person private email is "likely 550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail."? (And not just mine alone, by the sound of things).

Leading them to the erroneous conclusion of seemingly needing "To reduce the amount of spam sent to Gmail, this 550-5.7.1 message has been blocked."

As I have posted previously, Spamhaus gives a clean bill of health to all the domains the message plausibly originates from, including now "gateway1.enmail.co has no issues"


From the returned message Headers I extracted this:

X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.54 / 8.00];
BAYES_SPAM(2.24)[90.22%];
DMARC_POLICY_QUARANTINE(1.50)[enmail.co : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,quarantine];
MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain];
BOUNCE(-0.10)[DSN];
TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[];
MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:~,1:+,2:~,3:~];
RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1];
ASN(0.00)[asn:52148, ipnet:213.5.176.0/22, country:GB];
MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[];
ARC_NA(0.00)[];
FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[];
TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[];
RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1];
NEURAL_SPAM(0.00)[0.949];
SUBJ_BOUNCE_WORDS(0.00)[];
FUZZY_RATELIMITED(0.00)[rspamd.com];
RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[];
R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[];
R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record];
MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]
X-Original-Recipient: <My Email Name>@<My Plusnet User ID>.plus.com

To me, these two lines seem significant:

"BAYES_SPAM(2.24)[90.22%];"
"DMARC_POLICY_QUARANTINE(1.50) [enmail.co : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,quarantine];"

So, not so much Spam - hence the clean Spamhaus reports - as SPF and DKIM issues (as identified in my previous posts. See my Messages 38 and 39 above)?

Domain Reputation Checker | Check Domain Blacklist Status | Truelist

For gateway1.enmail.co

"15

Grade: F
Overall Reputation Score
Email Authentication

Score: 0/40

No SPF record found
No DMARC record found
Infrastructure

Score: 0/25

No MX records found - domain cannot receive email"

 

Please, could somebody technically knowledgeable about these email issues comment on this post and on my previous posts: Message - 38, 39