Folders have no old messages after migration

[#1]

After a Force9 account was migrated on Monday, we have eventually managed to get sends and receives working from each mailbox and device they are on, and the Inbox looks ok.

However, in at least one mailbox, although extra folders can be listed and subscribed to, there are no messages in folders from before migration, only one or two messages that have been moved today.

We have tried using Greenby webmail, Apple Mail, and Windows Thunderbird.

The folders contain vital long-term information!

Any suggestions before we do battle with the Greenby bot?

[#2]

I am experiencing the same situation.

Hopefully this will be sorted out by Plusnet and Greenby (either of them / or better still, them both working together) before Christmas as otherwise I will feel inclined to discuss the situation with a third party - such as Offcom.

For anyone else reading this ... if you created extra folders at the Plus.net end of your email mailboxes (ie: these are hosted by Plusnet and accessed by your email software) then you need to back up these folders before being migrated, as the migration process seems to only work with what is in the bog-standard inbox, sent items, drafts, etc.

I suppose one way to do this is to make new folders within the local folders on your computers's email software and then copy the messages over.  Note that you must COPY - nothing else! Then check that the files are is there.

Simon

[#3]

Hello,

I am in contact with Greenby on this topic, maybe they can help you too - you will need to log in to them and raise (create) a ticket

Simon

[#4]

@spsmiler I raised a ticket  on Friday!

And they have recently made suggestions.

But just before that I had found the missing emails!! Hooray!

In Webmail => Settings => Folders the folders were already subscribed - we had already checked that.
However, we did find that scrolling down the list of folders there appeared to be the same list of folders repeated ... which were NOT subscribed.
One list is shown under Inbox when it is expanded, the other list follows after Drafts, Sent, Junk and Trash
When they were subscribed, a second set of folders appeared in Mail at the bottom, which when opened became populated with the old emails!
So, there seem to be folders under Inbox which have emails since migration, and a duplicate list of folders with no parent which have the pre-migration emails.

The new folders were automatically reflected in Thunderbird.

We do not yet understand exactly what has happened, but it is a great relief to have at least regained visibility of the old emails.

[#5]

Same list of which folders?

In respect of Drafts / Sent / Trash different email clients can create their own versions of these folders.  Do not ask me why or how, I just know that this can happen.

This is probably associated with the influence of the setting of the IMAP root folder in the email client, again I do not know the rhyme nor reason just that I have encountered it.

IMAP folder subscription is a server side IMAP folder attribute: on the early migrations we did see the current settings not being moved across.  What is happening has been escalated.

For anyone experiencing "missing" folders, first off check their subscribed status.

[#6]

The folders were all 'custom' folders that had been created by the user, , not the normal sent, trash etc

[#7]

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@mavison wrote:

@spsmiler I raised a ticket  on Friday!

So, there seem to be folders under Inbox which have emails since migration, and a duplicate list of folders with no parent which have the pre-migration emails.

The new folders were automatically reflected in Thunderbird.

We do not yet understand exactly what has happened, but it is a great relief to have at least regained visibility of the old emails.

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Ahhh ... penny is dropping.

There is a running discussion in the SU space about the precise nature of folder migration.

• One can explain the migrated emails being in a folder under the root folder very easily give a particular postulation
• EXACTLY how did new emails get put into the new folders under the inbox

How IMAP folders are managed is entirely down to the characteristics of the IMAP client ... or indeed the IMAP migration tool.  I have raised question on the character of the IMAP migration tool this afternoon and your detail here supports one of the postulations.

In your IMAP client configuration, is there anything under IMAP folder path?

[#8]

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@Townman wrote:

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In your IMAP client configuration, is there anything under IMAP folder path?

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The duplicate folders were first noticed in greenby webmail - no idea how that is set up.

They also appear in Windows Thunderbird, where I have found the IMAP Server directory is blank.

However, this is only a temporary connection to help my son resolve their email account problems - the account is normally used from various iDevices using Apple Mail. I will try to discover what their equivalent settings are. It sounds as if it could be different on each mailbox and each device!

[#9]

Thank you.  It would also help inform the discussion if you can explain exactly how new emails got into the new folders.  Specifically, were the recreated, if so where / how.  Different IMAP clients handle folders differently: there is a possibility that such a difference is a non-obvious characteristic of the migration tools.

[#10]

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@Townman wrote:

It would also help inform the discussion if you can explain exactly how new emails got into the new folders. 

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The emails were copied (or possibly moved) using Apple Mail on an iPhone or an Apple laptop.

I think the folders were there after migation (maybe needed subscribing to).

I will try to clarify later this evening. Sorry to be so vague.

Is it possible that webmail uses an IMAP prefix of Inbox? That might explain observations. Sounds a potential problem if different clients use different IMAP prefixes for the same mailbox.

[#11]

Doing a couple of quick tests...

• Looking at a mailbox where (in Outlook) all the folders are within inbox
  • PlusNet webmail will only create folders under the INBOX
  • My Outlook client which looks at the mailbox will create only LOCAL folders if not under INBOX
• Looking at a mailbox (in Outlook) where all folders are equal peers
  • I can create a folder at the top level
  • ... found a webmail login issue - I will return to this!

[#12]

After reading messages here and also one from support at Greenby I logged in to my Greenby webmail and by twidling every setting that I could find I eventually saw a list of folders that were missing - because the on / off slider was in the off position.

It took two visits (several minutes apart) to this folder list for these other folders to become visible. They were not there on my first visit!

Some of them had data, alas but some of them were empty.

[#13]

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@mavison wrote:

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@Townman wrote:

It would also help inform the discussion if you can explain exactly how new emails got into the new folders. 

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The emails were copied (or possibly moved) using Apple Mail on an iPhone or an Apple laptop.

I think the folders were there after migation (maybe needed subscribing to).

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The new emails were 'filed' into the folders, ie moved not copied.

We are not sure exactly when the folders appeared in webmail. sorry. 

Which ones are visible seems to vary from device to device (all Apple Mail), but at least the emails are there somewhere. Visibility is being left until it is decided we understand what happened and where they should be.

[#14]

I have been investigating folders, and the 'IMAP Folder Path' or 'IMAP Server Directory' a little more.

The settings in Apple Mail appear to be 'Inbox'.
I can find no equivalent setting in Thunderbird, but all folders seem to include Inbox in their name, and I have not been able to create a folder without Inbox.

Using the excellent Email Diagnostics commands for IMAP from Townman, I can see the LIST "" * command produces a list of folders. The duplicated folders appear twice, and one example is:

* LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked) "." Holiday
This one now contains the pre-migration emails

* LIST (\HasNoChildren \UnMarked) "." INBOX.Holiday
This one now contains the post-migration emails

Is is possible that the migration copied folders but wrongly omitted the Inbox prefix?

[#15]

@mavison 

I can find no equivalent setting in Thunderbird, but all folders seem to include Inbox in their name, and I have not been able to create a folder without Inbox.

There is, its in the Advanced server settings, but Thunderbird seems to automatically recognise the root folder setting in some way

Here's  the settings shown for my .plus.com account where the folders are under Inbox

Whereas the same settings here for an account hosted elsewhere where the folders are at the root level