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What - Where - When - Why ???

Anotherone
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Quote from: npr
Where was the discussion about creating a new fibre section?
Can't help feeling there's going to be a awful lot of post which fits both categories.

Quote from: npr
I would accept that if there had been a proper discussion, not one held by a few member tucked away in an obscure thread.

Those are very valid points npr, ones with which I totally agree.
Quote from: Chris
It's really not relevant who asked for the change, as per the above posts, members have been asking for quite some time now and we all thought that now was the best time to make the change.
....................
The change is for the benefit of all members, not specific to Moderators or Staff, this is after all, a community.

Well Chris, you and I will have to totally disagree on this.  As has been posted on a number of occasions when this topic has come up before, it seems only a small number of people that think this will be beneficial.  The only people this seems to be pleasing are those on FTTC who just don't want to read posts on anything ADSL
As I've posted in another thread, the only split that might have seemed sensible is FTTP,  but then, apart from the trial aspects,  it could be argued that even that shouldn't be split.
This change certainly isn't going to make life any easier for our hard working moderators. nor do I see it helping to improve response times from already overstretched CRT members, who despite their individual personal efforts and dedication are just too thin on the ground for the volume of posts on the forum.
jab1
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

My personal opinion, FWIW - It is a good thing. As an ADSL user, I am just not interested (sorry) in FTTC problems, so not having to click on those FTTC  items which don't indicate in the title which mode is being used is a bonus.
John
Mav
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

I like the split to ADSL and Fibre.
As someone contemplating FTTC when it, hopefully, comes to my exchange at the end of the year it makes it easier to keep an eye on potential issues regarding installation and general service whilst still being able to easily keep abreast with and post about issues with ADSL without having to trawl through loads of threads looking for appropriate threads.

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Pettitto
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

@Anotherone - I really don't understand how making the split is such a bad thing, I really don't.
It's as simple as if you're on ADSL, post in ADSL. If you're on Fibre, post in Fibre.
It makes life a lot easier for Staff, Moderators and probably a large number of members across the forum. I think this change will please those both on ADSL and Fibre alike, it means they no longer have to go through thread after thread looking for an answer to a problem they might be having on ADSL with a bunch of Fibre threads in there too.
Chris
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Just to address a point earlier on in this thread, the change hasn't happened because 1 person has requested it, or because the moderators asked for it. The change has been made following multiple requests over the last couple of years, we then had discussions here and with the moderators to decide whether the time was right. Previously the volume of Fibre requests meant that I (and some others) was against splitting the forums, now though the time seems right. Time will tell.
Former Plusnet Staff member. Posts after 31st Jan 2020 are not on behalf of Plusnet.
Anotherone
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Mav, you make it sound like there's a very high volume of FTTC threads to trawl through Mav, which of course there isn't. So what about the issues that are common to both? And jab1's comment just supports my earlier remark
Quote from: Anotherone
The only people this seems to be pleasing are those on FTTC who just don't want to read posts on anything ADSL

which I suspect will continue to be the majority case.
@Chris Pettitt
I think you oversimplify the issue.
Quote from: Chris
It's as simple as if you're on ADSL, post in ADSL. If you're on Fibre, post in Fibre.

Well it's not that simple. People that have issues and want to post will just post in the most obvious place. This change doesn't make it any "easier" to post. A lot of people will still post their FTTC or ADSL problems in Feedback for example because they think that's the most appropriate place and generally don't understand the technical aspects causing the problem.
How do you think it makes it easier for the moderators with an extra board to deal with? How does it make it easier for staff who still have the same number of threads to respond to, a task which they are not managing successfully at present (not through any fault of their own)?
Do you really think that there is a large number of people who just consecutively read thread after thread looking for an answer to their problem? - I don't think so, they'll either have used a search engine or will make a thread of their own (if they are forum members) without even bothering to search.
How do you think it's making life easier for the majority of people that respond to threads, especially where there are common issues - the best example of which I can think of quickly was the network outage whilst I was on holiday. Based on what little I've read, that affected FTTP/FTTC/ADSL. I'm sure we will see many duplicate type threads on such issues - well you might,  I won't be looking specifically.
I'll just simply remind you of npr's OP and say there will be a lot of common issues.
@Chris Parr
Whilst there is obviously an increase in the number of posts on FTTC that does not correlate with an increased number of requests to have a separate Fibre board. The requests seem to have come form a very small number of people. How many FTTC thread starters - customers posting with problems have said it's been a problem not having a separate Fibre board?
You may have had discussions in the past, but as npr's OP asks, where was it this time?
I remain to be convinced, as I never saw it as a problem. One of the biggest problems on this forum is the number of threads appearing in Feedback that ought to be/have been in Broadband and Routers or occasionally one of the other boards, but that's a whole separate issue.
As you say,  Time will tell.
SuperZoom
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Quote from: Chris
@Anotherone - I really don't understand how making the split is such a bad thing, I really don't.

I must say, I'm not at all convinced that the split is terribly logical as it stands and I think it is actively detrimental to the sense of community.
I know that people do come to the forums when they have a problem with their "final mile" connection and it may help the DCT, and other users, to know from the off whether that connection is VDSL or ADSL. DCT members can always look it up via the linked username, of course, and for the benefit of others it is simple enough to ask people (perhaps even in the forum title) to state Fibre or ADSL before launching into their problem.
But the sense of community doesn't come from people who experience a bit of REIN and go away again as soon as they've buried their neighbour under the patio along with his annoying Christmas lights.
The sense of community comes from the accumulation of knowledge across a broad range of issues by people who stick around. They are the ones who, yes, may look at other users' SNRM and FEC figures for them, but have perhaps more of an interest in network level issues: the recent BNG problems, the recurring DNS issues, the congestion on the BTW network, updating traffic management profiles to incorporate some missing game or other... Any number of things not specific to the final mile technology.
From my own experience comparing an FTTP and an FTTC connection, I can say that the final mile technology matters not a jot compared to the exchange you're connected to, the BRAS, the SVLAN and BTW routing, the PlusNet gateway etc. etc.
You can't do anything about the modem settings and DLM on fibre anyway.
My opinion is that this split will lead to both extra work for the moderators and fragmentation of the community for no particular benefit.
Perhaps it would be better to retain the existing broadband and routers forum as-is and have a new, separate fibre forum for people to post about how DLM is messing up their latency -- purely to vent their frustration. A sticky notice at the top of the forum could explain that nothing can be done about it, so nobody would have to expend any effort replying to posts there  Cheesy
Problem solved!    Cool
Anotherone
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Well SuperZoom, I have to say that in addition to what I said above, you have taken many of my thoughts and successfully put them in a post.
I would add however, that the final mile has given many an FTTC user a lot of grief.
Cruise85
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Hi Anotherone / SuperZoom
I understand that the change wont please everyone, and that people will still post in alternative threads such as "Feedback" however the changes were made after we opened the matter up for discussion, and the majority of members opted to split the threads.
As Chris also stated, it does simplify matters in regards to where to raise a post.
Again, I'm sorry if you are one of the users who doesn't appreciate the changes, however I believe that these changes will be beneficial for all parties involved
Regards
Matt
InterZoom
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Quote from: Anotherone
Well SuperZoom, I have to say that in addition to what I said above, you have taken many of my thoughts and successfully put them in a post.
I would add however, that the final mile has given many an FTTC user a lot of grief.

True. I'm not saying there are no "final mile" issues. I'm just not convinced that that's a good way to break up posts on the forum.
For instance, if I post from this account (linked to an FTTC connection) should you call me SuperZoom or InterZoom? Am I posting about the same or different things? Would you prefer it if I just stuck to my existing identity, or is DSL technology so different to optical technology that that trumps everything?
Of course, if I say something annoying (or mischievous like this) and contradict myself, it might be to my advantage that people have to search across two different accounts to find me out    Wink    Tongue
Here's a couple of ping graphs comparing FTTP to FTTC. They look quite similar. There are no VDSL or GPON stats available in either case.
I did have a PlusNet ADSL account initially. Pings were about 10ms on fastpath, then about double that with interleaving. Then there was a patch of high DNS resolution times which wasn't caused by interleaving. I do hope I posted about it in the right place...
Switching final mile technologies has been both revealing and disappointing, since I expected a lot from FTTP and discovered that it could only ever be as good as the supporting infrastructure. But the forum and the knowledgeable users who contribute to it have been good throughout...
So I hope you're right, Matt, and everything will be at least twice as good now.
---
Troubleshooting:
The Limitations of Traceroute & Ping
Latency: Connection "fast" but internet sluggish? Bufferbloat FAQ
Black Holes: Worth noting that the Plusnet Hub One router has an MTU of 1488 bytes.
Anotherone
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

I'll just call you Zoom Grin
Quote from: InterZoom
Then there was a patch of high DNS resolution times which wasn't caused by interleaving.  I do hope I posted about it in the right place...

Well according to Chris Pettitt's instructions in reply #18, and with the board renaming, that post is definitely in the wrong place Shocked
But hang on, just to be sure perhaps you'd better do a copy and post it on the other board as well.  But am I bovvered  Huh
Quote from: InterZoom
So I hope you're right, Matt, and everything will be at least twice as good now.

Yeh right, of course it will be  Huh Huh
It doesn't simplify matters Matt as I pointed out in reply to Chris Pettitt. And where was the discussion  Roll_eyes   I've seen no link to any recent thread discussing this.
Now tell me, where does someone with a customised home network with a  router configuration problem post?
Crazy
SuperZoom
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Well I agree with Zoom.
And that otherone.
Crazy
I just hope I never bork my router...

Zoom
Mav
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Quote from: Anotherone
Mav, you make it sound like there's a very high volume of FTTC threads to trawl through Mav, which of course there isn't.
I was referring the trawling through the old single forum where the majority of threads were ADSL searching for Fibre specific issues.

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dvorak
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Quote from: Anotherone

Now tell me, where does someone with a customised home network with a  router configuration problem post?

in hardware, it's not related to the broadband service..
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Anotherone
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Re: What - Where - When - Why ???

Well you better start moving a load more posts then  Roll_eyes  but I'm certainly not going to spend any time counting the number of  router queries that have come upon the old Broadband & Routers (now ADSL) board.  Crazy