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outcast
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Re: Images


@Mav wrote:

@outcast 

These fora have always been member-lead since it's inception.


 

I know, I was one of the founding members on the original forum (18 years ?, and several different forum usernames ago)

and is why I'm trying to fight to keep this previously great forum from collapsing - now that trying to post helpful replies has been hijacked by an image censoring system which ISN'T WORKING ! and is likely to lead to the main contributors giving up and walking away.

.

outcast
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Re: Images

I wonder, given that @Gandalf 's title is "Operations Assurance Professional",  presumably the legal requirements for Plusnet to have an effective image screening process on this forum, must be in his purview ?.

@Gandalf can you get this image 'authorisation' automated or properly staffed, so this forum can get back to working normally ?

.

Mav
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Re: Images


@outcast wrote:

@Mav wrote:

 

... the extra work certainly doesn't warrant staff intervention at this time.

 

Are you saying that this is only an issue for the Plusnet forum ?,  I was assuming that this must be a problem on all the BT group forums - in which case there is probably enough work for the same 'approval' staff or AI to act on all platforms.

 

From my understanding the Plusnet fora are not run exactly the same as the others.

 


@Mav wrote:

 

We are doing our best to accommodate the needs of the members but it isn't always possible in the time you percieve.


 

So, I've had posts with images blocked for more than SIX DAYS, with THOUSANDS of views of the yellow triangle, and you are saying that it me that has a time frame perception problem ?

Those viewers will never revisit blocked posts, as the forum update notification flag doesn't get re-triggered when the image eventually gets 'approved' - and therefore posting helpful responses has become a complete waste of time

.


I've tried my best to explain the situation from my perspective as a moderator.

 

Your views and concerns have been noted.

Forum Moderator and Customer
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
He who feared he would not succeed sat still

jab1
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Re: Images

@outcast I certainly share your views, as you can imagine, but I also understand @Mav 's position - the mods and SU's, the only groups that have image approval rights, have other things to do - and a life.

@Mav Thanks for your replies last night.

 

HOWEVER, this situation needs resolving, otherwise I shall cease answering any topics requiring an 'image' response, which will make me a little sad, because I genuinely enjoy trying to help. As said above, I am currently on here as much as I am due to being partially 'housebound' - had I been able to get out as much as usual, I would probably have given up by now.

I am assuming - dangerous, I know - that this issue has been communicated to the business, in which case I would have thought a 'management' response would have been made by now, but sadly either they are hoping we will give up if they stay quiet long enough - or they just don't care.  

 

From my limited knowledge/experience of the 'BT Broadband' forum, it appears it is more 'employee managed' - to its detriment, as any dissenting/mildly critical posts are removed, or at least dismissed out of hand.

John
jab1
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Re: Images

I have another observation: My local (Sheffield) forum is considerably smaller than this one, and effectively run,managed ad moderated by one person (with unofficial help from some active members) but has had automated image verification for at least a year.

If one man, with the help of the platform vendors, can sort the issue, why is it so hard for the BT Group PLC behemoth?

John
outcast
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Re: Images


@jab1 wrote:

 

My local (Sheffield) forum is considerably smaller than this one ... has had automated image verification for at least a year.

If one man, with the help of the platform vendors, can sort the issue, why is it so hard for the BT Group PLC behemoth?


 

Grok suggests -

 

Understanding the Challenge and the Online Safety Act

The UK's Online Safety Act 2023 (OSA) imposes duties on online platforms, including user-to-user services like forums, to proactively identify and mitigate risks from illegal or harmful content. This includes images that may contain child sexual abuse material (CSAM), terrorist content, violence, or other prohibited material. For platforms hosting user-generated content, such as Plusnet's forum, the Act requires risk assessments and effective moderation systems, with codes of practice for illegal harms effective from March 2025. Manual approval processes, while compliant, are inefficient and can hinder user engagement, as you've described. AI image recognition offers a scalable, near real-time alternative that aligns with OSA requirements by automating detection while allowing human oversight for edge cases.

Proposed AI-Powered Solution for Automated Image Approval

Plusnet can integrate AI-based content moderation into their forum's upload workflow to scan images automatically upon posting. This would enable most safe images to be approved and displayed in seconds, reducing wait times to near real-time (typically under 1-2 seconds per image via cloud APIs). The system would flag potentially harmful content for human review, ensuring compliance without bottlenecking legitimate posts.

How the AI Image Recognition Process Would Work

  1. Image Upload and Initial Scan: When a user posts an image, the forum software (e.g., via plugins for platforms like Discourse or phpBB, which Plusnet might use) intercepts the upload and sends the image to an AI moderation API. The AI uses computer vision models trained on vast datasets to analyze the image for:
    • Illegal/Harmful Content: CSAM (using perceptual hashing or classifiers like those from Thorn or PhotoDNA), explicit nudity, violence/gore, weapons, hate symbols, or terrorism-related imagery.
    • Contextual Risks: Even non-illegal content harmful under OSA, such as self-harm promotion or bullying visuals, if the AI model supports it.
    • Detection is probabilistic: Models output confidence scores (e.g., 0-1 scale) for categories like "adult content" or "violence."
  2. Automated Decisioning:
    • Approve Instantly: If the AI confidence score indicates safety (e.g., >95% safe across all categories), the image is released and displayed immediately. This covers the vast majority of benign posts (e.g., screenshots of router setups or memes).
    • Flag for Review: If flagged (e.g., moderate confidence in a risky category), the image is held in a queue for a moderator. Notifications can alert staff, with tools for quick bulk approvals/rejections.
    • Reject Outright: For high-confidence violations (e.g., clear CSAM), auto-reject and notify the user/admin, logging for OSA reporting.
  3. Near Real-Time Performance: Cloud-based AI services process images asynchronously but return results in milliseconds to seconds. Integration via APIs ensures the forum doesn't freeze during scans. For high traffic, use queuing systems like AWS Lambda or Azure Functions to handle bursts.
  4. Fallback and Logging: All scans are logged (anonymized where possible) for audits, as required by Ofcom (the OSA regulator). If AI fails (e.g., due to downtime), revert to manual hold.

This hybrid approach (AI + human) meets OSA's "systemic risk mitigation" duties while minimizing delays.

Recommended AI Tools and Technologies

Several mature, OSA-compliant AI services are available, often with built-in support for UK regulations. Plusnet should select based on ease of integration, cost (typically pay-per-scan, e.g., $0.001-0.005 per image), and accuracy (aim for >99% for safe content). Here's a comparison:

Screenshot 2025-09-16 at 15-37-02 AI Image Moderation for Online Safety - Grok.png

 

Start with Amazon Rekognition or Azure, as they offer robust CSAM detection and are widely used by UK platforms. For open-source alternatives (if cost is an issue), consider integrating models like OpenAI's CLIP or Hugging Face's safety classifiers, but these require more dev work and may not be as compliant out-of-the-box.

Implementation Steps for Plusnet

  1. Assess and Plan (1-2 months): Conduct an OSA risk assessment (required by law) focusing on image harms. Engage a compliance expert (e.g., via Ofcom guidance). Choose a tool and test for false positives on sample forum images.
  2. Technical Integration (2-4 weeks):
    • Modify forum upload handler (e.g., via hooks in the CMS) to call the AI API on post-submit.
    • Use secure endpoints (HTTPS) and store images temporarily in a blob store (e.g., AWS S3) during scanning.
    • Implement user feedback: Show "Image under review" placeholders that auto-update.
  3. Testing and Rollout (1 month): Beta test with a subset of users. Monitor metrics like approval rate (target 90%+ auto-approved), false positive rate (<1%), and scan time. Train moderators on AI outputs.
  4. Ongoing Maintenance: Regularly update AI models (providers handle this). Report incidents to Ofcom as needed. Comply with ICO privacy guidance by minimizing data retention (e.g., delete scans after 30 days).

Total setup: 2-3 months, with minimal ongoing staff needs.

Benefits

  • User Experience: Near-instant approvals restore forum vitality, encouraging help threads without delays.
  • Compliance and Efficiency: Reduces moderator workload by 80-90% for images; ensures proactive OSA adherence, avoiding fines (up to 10% of global revenue).
  • Scalability: Handles growth without hiring; AI improves over time with provider updates.
  • Cost-Effective: For a forum like Plusnet's (likely <10,000 images/month), annual costs could be under £5,000.

Key Considerations and Challenges

  • Accuracy Trade-offs: AI isn't perfect—false positives (e.g., flagging medical images as explicit) could frustrate users. Mitigate with tunable thresholds and appeals processes. False negatives are riskier for compliance, so err toward caution.
  • Privacy and Ethics: Scanning images processes personal data, so obtain consent via terms of service and use UK/EU data centers for GDPR. Avoid storing full images post-scan.
  • Bias and Coverage: Models may underperform on diverse content (e.g., non-Western imagery); test thoroughly. For OSA-specific harms like disinformation visuals, combine with text moderation.
  • Legal/Regulatory: Consult lawyers for OSA implementation statements (due to Ofcom). If using third-party AI, ensure SLAs cover uptime and liability.
  • Edge Cases: AI struggles with altered images (e.g., deepfakes); supplement with hashing for known CSAM databases.

This AI approach transforms a "hopeless" manual process into an efficient, compliant system. Plusnet could pilot it quickly to demonstrate commitment to user safety and engagement.

 

Protech
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Re: Images


@jab1 wrote:

 

If one man, with the help of the platform vendors, can sort the issue, why is it so hard for the BT Group PLC behemoth?


For the very reason that they are a large risk adverse corporate enterprise with multiple processes and procedures , sign offs , and approvals to get before anything can be done. By their very nature they are not as responsive or agile as smaller organizations.

BT do have the resources to automate the image approvals on this forum should they choose to do so.

 

 

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jab1
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Re: Images

Understood, @Protech  - but they have had at least TWO years to test and implement those resources

 

BT do have the resources to automate the image approvals on this forum should they choose to do so.

 

Also understood - so it begs the question - why haven't they?

John
outcast
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Re: Images

So having been told that it is 'unreasonable' to expect prompt image approval after 10pm

and that the best way to speed up an image approval is to report my own post to the moderators for action.

I posted Reply #81  with an embedded image, at 3:42pm, and immediately reported the post to the moderators.

Two hours and ten minutes later, the image gets approved.

HOWEVER in the mean time 79 people attempted to view my post, and were unable to view the most important part of my posting,  and ARE UNLIKELY to ever go back and re-read the long post or notice that the all important table has now become visible.

This is useless, the image approval needs to be less than five minutes, otherwise all those people subscribed to a topic will eventually give up responding to their topic update notifications, if parts of posts are frequently missing.

Ticked_off

jab1
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Re: Images

Okay, a week later (almost) and still not a peep from PN about this, although at least a couple of, presumably, fairly senior staff have been on the forum since my last post.

It really is time we had heard some kind of response, especially as the 'announcement' was, to say the least, extremely misleading - I would almost go as far as to say an untruth, although I accept it was crafted by the 'PR team' at BTCD in London.

 

John
jab1
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Re: Images

Can someone please tell me how many 'inappropriate images' have been posted on this forum (on the support boards, at least)?

Yes, I realise that occasionally, some users inadvertently post sensitive data, but that gets spotted and corrected fairly quickly. 

John
jab1
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Re: Images

@James_B I appreciate that the 'email problem' might have management attention at the moment - understandably - but I assume that is not your area of responsibility, so shouldn't make it difficult to (1) explain the less than truthful announcement that prompted this topic, and (2) explain how the situation is going to be resolved - and when. At the moment, it is close to  impossible to help anyone on the forums if either their initial post, or any replies, need to rely on images.

A reply this side of Christmas 2026 would be appreciated.

John
jab1
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Re: Images

@James_B You are obviously reading this board, as you have answered the topic following this one. Could you do us the courtesy of replying to this one?

John
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Re: Images


@jab1 wrote:

 ...... explain how the situation is going to be resolved - and when.


Isn't the current resolution to patiently wait until a Mod or SU comes along and releases the image? Alternatively, report to Mod. Some of them include personal information and need to be edited by a Mod before they can be released.

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jab1
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Re: Images

I understand that to be the 'current resolution', but it causes unneeded chaos. If someone posts an image, (which only mods and SU's can see) , it means we have to 'report' it then wait until it is released - meanwhile we could have looked at a fair number of topics and forgotten about it - result, the OP doesn't get a timely response, if ever.

As said before, the 'personal information' trick is just that, a smokescreen to divert away from this poor implementation of the 'Online Suppression Act'.

All I am asking for is a response from the business, which they are shying away from, for some strange reason.  

John