Wifi connection problems for no apparent reason

[#1]

@flamesong 

Having access to a Hub One would have it's benefits as this allows 'routerestats' to be used. This monitors Hubs One Help page and details how the DSL link is performing. Handy for identifying REIN on the physical connection.

Downside with the Hub One not supporting ICMP for BQM would need a wired (not WiFi) device assigned to the DMZ.

With regards to the powerline adapter, although moving the adapter away from the Hub has its gains, it must be remembered that every powerline in the house (lights, ring mains, cooker) is transporting the powerline RF signal.

The TL-WPA422 are 2.4GHz band device only, I found them to be reliable, for future reference; they only support up to 100Mbps speeds as the LAN port on the is hardware restricted, but with 2.4GHz band is not an issue, you'd only get a max WiFi speed of around 72Mbps, just the wired speed would be restricted.

[#2]

I'm setting off shortly but a quick reply.

It looks like the Powerline kit will not arrive until Monday do I'm not going to mess around with anything until I've tested it.

I may have a Hub One. There was a problem with the Netgear router which is why I don't use it but I can't remember what it was.

When I threw in ADSL, I was thinking only in terms of it being Asymmetric. For whatever reason, the dpecification

20-27Mb estimated download speed

18.2Mb minimum guaranteed speed

2.0Mb estimated upload speed

Yes, there are phone extension sockets.

The desktop is connected via WiFi due to it not being able to connect it via Ethernet.

[#3]

I know the limitations of Powerlines and 2.4GHz but they are academic when my download speed is a fraction of their capacity. I  tried to explain this to the Plusnet customer service person but they kept repeating 'but 5GHz is faster' like Nigel Tufnel.

The data coming down the phone line is limited to a maximum of 28Mbps. Until recently, it only ever reached 24Mbps (the Mac would show ~2MB/s).

[#4]

@flamesong 

"I used a TinySA and found that parts of the house which previously could download (on a Mac Mini) at over 2MB/s had a signal which was barely 5dB above the noise floor so it was unsurprising that there were problems."

So, seemingly, something has recently increased the background noise level.

What has changed in your enviroment recently? New electrical fittings? Any new devices? New LED lights? Anything using a plug in power adaptor? Smart meter installed?

Have you gone round turning off power to devices at the mains to see if any may be causing interference? When replacing the router did you also use the new power adaptor that came with it?

[#5]

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@flamesong wrote:

... the Powerline kit will not arrive until Monday do I'm not going to mess around with anything until I've tested it.

Once you have tested them, consider fitting one of them next to the desktop so that you can connect the desktop with ethernet.

When trying to fix your broadband buffering issues, we will need to reliably test latency on your connection.

Testing latency via WiFi is inconsistent - even if forcing use of 5GHz and standing next to the router.

To test latency properly, ideally you'd connect an ethernet connected PC directly in to a LAN port on the router.

As your desktop is the only ethernet device you have, and is located on the opposite side of the house,

the options (only for testing) are -

1. Buy a cheap and very long CAT5e ethernet cable, and run it across the house between desktop and router.
2. Temporarily move the desktop to the same room as the router and connect a short ethernet cable
3. Leave the desktop upstairs, but connect it via the powerline adaptors to the ethernet port - this isn't great for latency testing but would probably be adequate (and infinitely better than using WiFi).  Also you could leave the powerline adaptor permanently connected there, as the ethernet connection would likely be better than WiFi and the plug itself would provide WiFi to any other devices in that room.

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@flamesong wrote:

Yes, there are phone extension sockets.

That could easily explain why your broadband upload speed is so low, and even more reason to test your router's DSL line stats when connected to the hidden TEST socket behind the master socket faceplate.

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@flamesong wrote:

When I threw in ADSL, I was thinking only in terms of it being Asymmetric.

Fair enough, that is entirely understandable.

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@flamesong wrote:

There was a problem with the Netgear router which is why I don't use it but I can't remember what it was.

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It would be helpful if you could remember what the problem was, as using a Netgear router has a better chance of fixing your broadband connection issue than any of the Plusnet routers, without spending any money on new equipment.

[#6]

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@pvmb wrote:

So, seemingly, something has recently increased the background noise level.

 No, the signal level dropped - that was my point. The background noise is about -90dB and the signal was about -80dB to -85dB. Just to illustrate this to myself, I walked about 100m in front of my house where there are no other buildings and the noise level was -90dB.

[#7]

@flamesong 

In which case, has anything been moved recently in your house? New carpets? Or have you had any building work, modifications?

[#8]

I think I can conclusively say that it is not a WiFi problem; I just transferred about 40GB of files from my NAS to my Mac (virtually from one corner of the house to the opposite corner) via WiFi at about 40MB/s (320Mbps).

However, when the Powerline kit arrives, I'll still install it just to be able to connect my Mac and PC via their Ethernet ports to see if there is any improvement to the internal network speed.

Internet speeds have fluctuated and I noticed no buffering problems and in fact with my YouTube client, I am getting upwards of 30s buffer at times.

There aren't many properties on our spur so I doubt that there had been a contention problem, especially with my neighbours being away - they are back now so I can ask them if they have any issues when I see them.

I don't see the point in messing around and potentially making things worse when everything is functioning well enough for the rest of the household to use it - they are kind of used to not having the best speeds but none at all is more than frustrating.

[#9]

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@flamesong wrote:

I think I can conclusively say that it is not a WiFi problem;

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@flamesong 

I agree that your primary problem isn't the WiFi, although there is always room to improve wireless coverage.

Your fundamental issue is that your VDSL upload speed is unreasonably low, and the upload:download ratio is is too high.

You might be able to increase the upload speed by removing your phone extension wiring and optimising the router's DSL connection to the master socket.

Then regardless of better upload speeds (or not) I'd be near certain that most of your issues could easily be cured by managing (in particular) how the router sends upload traffic to the internet.  To do this you'd need to use a router with some sort of bandwidth control and/or QoS (Quality of Service) - a feature that Plusnet routers don't have.  It is possible that your Netgear router could achieve this with not much effort and zero cost (although I still can't confirm that as you still haven't told us what model it is, or confirmed why you stopped using it !). 

If you have an old Plusnet Hub One, just swapping that for your Plusnet Hub Two is likely to improve your broadband connection, as the Hub One's received a firmware update that mostly cured buffering issues on VDSL lines with speeds similar to yours.  If you do swap in the Hub One, check that it has the latest firmware loaded (4.7.5.1.83.8.289.1.3) - and if not ask Plusnet to remotely update it. 

Using a Hub One would be less bad than your currently connected Hub Two, but nowhere near as good as what might be achieved with a non-Plusnet router with traffic bandwidth controls.

Is your last post a statement that you are giving up with trying to make this better, or do you want to try and get your broadband connection fixed and make everyone happy ?

[#10]

It's not about giving up, per se, but recognising that what I am getting is as near as damn it, what I am paying for. Please see screenshots of my Plusnet package vs a Speedtest that I just did bearing in mind that I did not sweep the house looking for devices which may or may not be transferring data.

There were problems for maybe three weeks, initially intermittent and last week it became near impossible to do anything. Now the problem seems to have gone. I don't know how to troubleshoot an intermittent problem when there are no symptoms - there is nothing more frustrating diagnostically than a problem which goes away on its own.

But I might add that disconnecting the internal phone extensions is not an option for two reasons. Firstly, BTO would likely say that I have interfered with their equipment and having had them here and lie to Plusnet that I had done so in the past and try to charge me a load of money (which Plusnet, albeit the same company for all intents and purposes paid for me), I'm not giving them a shred of evidence that I had. Secondly, it's a rented house; ergo not mine to mess about with.

Also, as far as I remember, the Hub One does not permit IP Address Mapping which is highly desirable for two devices on my network.

[#11]

@flamesong 

Before giving up I would recommend just removing your master socket faceplate and using a dangly filter, try a speed test with no extensions connected. I once did this with a friends connection and got a 400% speed increase. Fitting a filtered faceplate to isolate the extensions solved the problem permanently.

If you are stuck with a 2Mbps upload speed you are likely to have problems with simultaneous use of voice and Internet traffic without using a router with QoS that can be set to prioritise the voice traffic. This is one of the advantages of moving to an ISP that provides a router with an integrated voice ATA, which is prioritised by design.

[#12]

How can I get a 400% (or any significant) increase on 24.63Mbps when the estimated speed for the line is 20-27Mbps?

Please see the attachments in my last post.

[#13]

... but it is your upload speeds that are the problem, and phone extension wiring mostly affects the upload frequencies of VDSL.

If you got 400% on your 1.8Mbps upload, then you would get to 7.2Mbps - which for a 28Mbps download line is about the speed that the associated upload should be.  The upload:download ratio should be about 1:4, and why broadband packages are for example 10/40Mbps, and 20/80Mbps.

[#14]

I suspect that your problem is your upload speed. Buffering on this will cause reduced download performance.

[#15]

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@flamesong wrote:

It's ... but recognising that what I am getting is as near as damn it, what I am paying for. Please see screenshots of my Plusnet package vs a Speedtest that I just did

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Well that theory is nonsense.

You Plusnet speed estimates, are rounded down figures from the database that feeds the BT Broadband Availability Checker.

The BT Availability Checker gets it's figures from what your local FTTC cabinet thinks your line is capable of.

What your line is capable of is dependent on the quality of the line to your home, external electrical interference, the distance, the history of how your modem negotiated it's speeds and noise margins etc, AND the impedance mismatch, signal reflections, and aerial effects that your home extension wiring presents to the overall line.

Therefore your Plusnet estimated speeds are based on how your line is likely to perform as it currently presents itself.

However if you optimise what happens on your side of the BT master socket, then your modem sync speeds can improve immediately, the corresponding speed results might take up to 10 days for the BT BRAS profile to catch up, the BT checker's measured figures improve over time, and your Plusnet estimates change for the better.

I have done this myself. I am about 700m from the FTTC cabinet in the middle of a row of 15 houses. I used the BT checker to get the speeds of ALL of the houses.  The speeds in my road are roughly similar at typically 42/8Mbps, decreasing slightly with increasing distance from the FTTC cabinet.  I then did everything possible to have the perfect master socket and faceplate, the best available DSL cable, the optimum modem to match my FTTC cabinet chipset, plus mains RFI/EMI filtering and uninterruptible power supply.  My modem sync speeds are now 79.999/19.999Mbps and the BT availability checker now shows that I am at near enough double the speed of the entire rest of the road.