False hope and broken promises? - line speed low

[#1]

Hi all,
I've been with Plusnet about 10 months now, and throughout all that time I cannot fault Plusnet's customer service, reliability, etc. but I've constantly been disappointed by line speed.
When I first signed up, my estimated speed was around 9 mbps. When all was plugged in, I'm sure I was connecting around 7-7.5mbps, which would be great. But after the first month or so, I've been stuck on around 5mbps.
I've run the plethora of tests, results below - I wonder if anyone can spot anything suspect here which might be limiting my download speed? As you can see, I never turn the router off.
[quote=TG582n DSL Connection stats]
Before running any tests:
Uptime: 31 days, 19:42:10
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 6.695
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [GB/GB]: 1,61 / 1,99
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,1 / 40,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,0 / 6,6
System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----
Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / IFTN
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 44 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 5 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): -
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 213.165 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1.035.763.852
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 127 / 3.378.491
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 65 / 64.701.614
After cutting power for >1 minute and cold booting:
(Repeated identical from above lines removed)
Uptime: 0 days, 0:04:58
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 6.647
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 148,70 / 588,53
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,5 / 40,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 28,8 / 8,9
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 7.294
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
After running the tests below:
Uptime: 0 days, 0:24:53
DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 6.647
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 3,32 / 36,88
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,5 / 40,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 28,9 / 8,9
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 36.755
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 0
I ran the BT Wholesale line test too, with the following results:
[quote=BT Wholesale]
Broadband Speed Test Results
Download Speed (Mbps): 5.77
Upload Spead (Mbps): 0.36
Ping Latency(ms): 39.25

The reason I'm posting this now is because I just switched to the Unlimited package (I was on Pro before, I think) and Plusnet sent me an email again estimating my max speed at 9 Mbps. In terms of real-world download speed, I've not broken 4.3 Mbps all month - that's less than half the 9 Mbps Plusnet reckon I could get.
The numbers above make me wonder if I'm on ADSL, rather than ADSL2+ - although my router says G.992.5 - which is why my potential speed is limited.
Is it hopeless to think I might get a higher speed? AFAIK, fibre's not available at my property (probably because it's a Grade II listed apartment building with around 40 properties, so I suspect the 'green box' is in the building somewhere, although the apartments were converted from a hotel in 1999 so I'd hope the lines aren't getting on for 100 years old!).
Thanks in advance for any thoughts 😃

[#2]

Your target noise margin looks to be 9. This will be taking a bit off your speed. The reason for this will either be disconnections or a lot of errors and looking at your stats you are seeing quite a lot of errors. (as a comparison I've logged just under 4000 FEC errors in 12 hours).
Have you got a master socket with a removable lower half? If so could you connect the router to the test socket inside a post those stats again when it's been there for a couple of hours or so please.
Secondly, is there any noise on the phone line (dial 17070 and take option 2 for the quite line test)? Background noise on the telephone line can be very disruptive to broadband.

[#3]

Hi smilerish,
You're definitely provided on ADSL2+ but the upload is currently capped and as Jelv says your downstream margin is set to 9dB. We could uncap it and reset the SNR to get the downstream target margin to 6dB which should ideally get you around another 800kb of sync - I can't see any drops that would make me worry about lowering that target.
Aside from that, it might be worth trying from the test socket (again as Jelv says above) just to see if that does improve things - if it does it'd be best to hold off on the SNR reset and do it when the line's at its best for maximum effect.

[#4]

Thanks both for the advice.
Trying with the test socket (assuming one exists - the phone socket's a brass one so it's not obvious whether it's a master socket) is a little impractical, so I've not got round to it yet. Hope to try sometime in the next week, though.
I'll post back when I've tried it out.

[#5]

If it's brass it won't have a test scoket, only the white plastic "Openreach" or BT ones do

[#6]

Quote from: smilerish

.... I've not broken 4.3 Mbps all month

You got 5.77 Mbps in the line test you quoted!
You are not supposed to tamper with the line side of the Master Socket fitted by BT.  This would make it impossible to fit a brass faceplate to a normal NTE5 Master Socket.  Are you certain that really is the Master Socket?  Extension wiring can give trouble for broadband and if that's an extension socket you are looking at then that could be your problem. 

[#7]

At 40db line attenuation (down) you should be getting a higher speed, mine is 47db on ADSL2+ but I can get it down to 44db by NOT selecting ADSL or ADSL2+ and just setting the modulation to G.Dmt this will normally get me a sync speed above 7megs.
I should point out I use a Billion 7800n router and I can set my SNR lower but with the chance of more disconnections if you set it to low.

[#8]

Okay, I've taken the brass socket off the wall and it is indeed a master socket - ring capacitor, spark gap suppressor and all - but no test socket, as predicted by apjashley1. I was a bit concerned at first - I could only see the two flimsy current-carrying wires and no sheath, but I managed to pull this through the wall and made sure it was lashed to the socket properly using the cable tie that was there, but not being used (!), to make sure there's no pulling on the faceplate connections.
So what I've done now is move the router so it's next to the socket and hooked it up using the shorter cable supplied with the router. Beforehand, I had it connected with an ADSL extension cable (which is a shielded cable - it shouldn't have much loss at all).
At the moment, the router seems to be reporting pretty much identical line stats:
[quote=TG582n DSL Connection stats]Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 6.745
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 133,27 / 240,15
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,3 / 40,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 27,9 / 9,0
I'll leave it overnight (I'm going away anyway) and do another check of the stats & speed test tomorrow.

Quote from: ReedRichards

You got 5.77 Mbps in the line test you quoted!

True - what I meant was I haven't broken 4.3 Mbps in real-terms. I have a SamKnows "whitebox", and that's the best speed it's managed to get in its tests.
Will report back tomorrow afternoon/evening if there's any change in the line stats. Now I need a long CAT5 cable… hmm.

[#9]

It's getting on for 48 hours since I moved the router next to the socket, and the line stats are still very similar:
[quote=TG582n DSL Connection stats]Uptime: 1 day, 23:12:22
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 444 / 6.745
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,3 / 40,0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 28,4 / 7,6
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 6.662 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 47.529.001
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 265.026
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4.804.040
This reassures me that the issue isn't the extension cable - the down line attenuation is 0.5 dB different, which I doubt would make a significant impact (though I'd welcome others' opinions). Saying that, the SN Margin is lower, now that the line has settled.
Reading back to what jelv said, I'm wondering about the high error rate - if the line attention isn't that bad, what could be causing so many errors? I've done a line test and I can't hear any noise.
I'm tempted to try asking Matt to reset the line cap and see what difference that makes. Should I leave it connected as is, or put the router back with the extension lead? At the moment, the wired half of my network's missing internet!
Thanks for your help, everyone!

[#10]

Hi there,
I've placed a order to uncap your upload speed this will complete tomorrow for you.
I've also placed an SNR reset on your line that will take up-to 4 hours to complete which should give you a slight increase in speed.

[#11]

Quote from: chrispurvey

I've placed a order to uncap your upload speed this will complete tomorrow for you. I've also placed an SNR reset on your line that will take up-to 4 hours to complete which should give you a slight increase in speed.

Thanks Chris, this seems to have made quite a big difference! I noticed my up-speed had increased yesterday, and I had to reset my router this morning which gave an even greater increase:
[quote=TG582n DSL Connection stats]Uptime: 0 days, 0:18:49
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 1.208 / 7.611
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,6 / 0,0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25,6 / 40,5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 5,8 / 5,8
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 75 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1.263.624
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 1 / 3.176
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 2 / 63.07
I'm not sure why my connection dropped this morning, but a reboot of the router fixed it and all seems fine now. Line attenuation is back up again (slightly) because I've put the router on the extension cable again. Pleased to see that it's still syncing at a higher rate. I've just run a quick & dirty (i.e. over wi-fi) BT speedtest:

Quote

Download speed (Mbps): 5.54 Upload speed (Mbps): 0.89 Ping (ms): 39.25

So not much different to the start, but I think there are other devices using the network this time. I can live with this - thanks for your help.

[#12]

Quote from: smilerish

I'm not sure why my connection dropped this morning, but a reboot of the router fixed it

Rebooting the router should not be necessary to re-establish a dropped connection.  If you find yourself doing that often then you need a new router.

[#13]

It would not necessarily be the modem/router, but it's certainly a quick way of getting DLM to push up the Target SNRM again!
What extension cable exactly is this that you are using - where's it plugged in an what''s connected to it?

[#14]

Quote from: ReedRichards

Rebooting the router should not be necessary to re-establish a dropped connection.  If you find yourself doing that often then you need a new router.

This is the first occasion that I've rebooted in order to re-establish a connection. Generally, I've never lost a connection before, and for whatever reason the 'Connect' button on the router settings page didn't work. I've only ever rebooted the router in the past due to LAN issues, though I've not had to do that for months either.
The connection's been stable since - still connected at 1.208 Mbps up / 7.611 Mbps down, although my error rate may have gone up somewhat: 141.595.535 FEC down in a day!

Quote from: Anotherone

It would not necessarily be the modem/router, but it's certainly a quick way of getting DLM to push up the Target SNRM again! What extension cable exactly is this that you are using - where's it plugged in an what''s connected to it?

The cable is similar, if not identical, to this one. I bought it a few years ago when I really did need it - the master socket in an old house was in a useless position, so I used the cable to reach the router, which I put near the centre of the house (it was a big student house, lots of occupants to reach!).
It's currently plugged into an ADSL filter which is plugged into the master socket (brass, no test socket as mentioned above) - the other end is plugged directly into the router, which is located on the opposite side of my living room to the phone socket. Originally, I did this to save buying a switch - all my wired ethernet devices are on this side of the room. Now I've got a SamKnows "whitebox", so I could swap all this around with an ethernet extension cable, but I can't find my 20m cable and haven't had a chance to buy one.

[#15]

Well as long as that cable is twisted pair and not just screened then it should be OK, but Maplins advertising doesn't say either way,  worth checking! Depends on where you bought it. Screening by itself is inadequate. There should be only 1 pair of wires connected as well.
I wouldn't worry too much about the FEC errors, its the CRC's that are more important and they are high for the short uptime. That and the low sync speed for the current SNRM suggest along with the variation in SNRM see between the various stats suggest a lot of noise/interference somewhere.
Can you hear/have you heard any crackling or other noises on the line when using the phone? Have you had any problems with incoming or outgoing calls?
When you had a look at the back of the master socket - don't rush to do it again just now and lose sync again - it may force DLM to push up the Target SNRM more - do you recall what the colour of the wires were connecting to terminals 2 & 5? Also could you see a cable sheath on the incoming cable and what colour was it?
Is there any other phone sockets at all in the house? - If so check whether they are dead or alive using a phone with filter.
Can you see the route of the incoming cable, is it overhead or underground and are there any more connectors anywhere before the master socket?