Sorry, yet another PS3/Thomson NAT issue.
I thought I would post this here as it is a router specific problem as oppose anything else. I know it's been done to death but I have yet to see anything conclusive other than to get a new router which considering the 585v8 router is PN's current stock router and the amount of people using it with PS3's I don't think it's just something to be swept under the carpet.
A web search for answers comes up with loads of problems with no answers and on other isp's who have used this router for their customers. It has to be said enabling UPNP on the router will get a NAT2 on a ps3 so theoretically there should be no problems here but that just isn't the case with any router. I have had three other types of router and friends who in the past have had problems either joining servers or voice chat, getting kicked etc and IMO the only things that solved it was DMZ'ing the PS3. That's why I think it's important to find out if it is possible to do it with this router. If someone can come up with the correct settings then it will save a lot of posts to do with NAT issues later.
So anybody got any suggestions or had any success? I have managed to get the PS3 assigned my public IP by the following method.
1. Connect the ps3 on auto settings
2. Set the router to DHCP always give the same ip to PS3
3. assign public ip to PS3
3.switch off the ps3 to release its old ip and get the new public one
At this point here opinion differs on whether to then connect the ps3 auto ip settings or manually. I have tried both and neither work. Not only that, while it is in the DMZ you get no internet connection at all. Even unmolested just plugging into a router with no upnp, port forwarding you would still bare minimum get an internet connection just problems with the PS network.
This to me looks like a conflict between the PS3 settings and how the router deals with it. Here are some of my observations and some possibilities. Perhaps someone more networking savvy will be able to shed some light on it.
After assigning the public ip the PS3 shows up in list of devices with my public ip so I'm assuming that part is working. The conflict seems to arise when (after looking for advice) you set the PS to auto get it's settings. This SHOULD just work as it is in effect making the PS a modem rather than being routed you would think. I have noticed that the settings auto handed out by the router are as follows.
PS3 IP (my public ip)
Default router 0.0.0.0
Primary DNS 192.168.1.254 router standard ip
Seconday DNS 212.159.6.10 PN's DNS server
People advise manually entering these instead of auto but if you were to enter 0,0,0,0 as the default router the PS gripes that is out side the ip range or not valid something along those lines. Conclusion the auto settings won't work on a PS. I have tried all sorts of combinations PS ip the default router, default router public ip/default router dns servers PN's. None of these combinations work. In fact making the PS your public ip seems to achieve nothing but losing your internet connection to it
A few suggestions out there from reading manuals for other Thomson routers seems to sway towards putting it in bridge mode (I don't fully understand) and separating off one of the ethernet ports to work with DMZ. The problem there being to change these settings you need to be able to access the router with expert settings which seem to be locked away behind PN's branded firmware. There is also tips on installing generic Thomson firmware which will give you access to more settings but where do PN stand on doing that?
Anybody who knows their way round a network I'd love to hear any suggestions on ip settings. Or any suggestions really, there must be an answer out there or PN customers are getting a router that won't DMZ a PS3 and that seems a shame as most nat issues related to PS's are solved by doing just that.
A web search for answers comes up with loads of problems with no answers and on other isp's who have used this router for their customers. It has to be said enabling UPNP on the router will get a NAT2 on a ps3 so theoretically there should be no problems here but that just isn't the case with any router. I have had three other types of router and friends who in the past have had problems either joining servers or voice chat, getting kicked etc and IMO the only things that solved it was DMZ'ing the PS3. That's why I think it's important to find out if it is possible to do it with this router. If someone can come up with the correct settings then it will save a lot of posts to do with NAT issues later.
So anybody got any suggestions or had any success? I have managed to get the PS3 assigned my public IP by the following method.
1. Connect the ps3 on auto settings
2. Set the router to DHCP always give the same ip to PS3
3. assign public ip to PS3
3.switch off the ps3 to release its old ip and get the new public one
At this point here opinion differs on whether to then connect the ps3 auto ip settings or manually. I have tried both and neither work. Not only that, while it is in the DMZ you get no internet connection at all. Even unmolested just plugging into a router with no upnp, port forwarding you would still bare minimum get an internet connection just problems with the PS network.
This to me looks like a conflict between the PS3 settings and how the router deals with it. Here are some of my observations and some possibilities. Perhaps someone more networking savvy will be able to shed some light on it.
After assigning the public ip the PS3 shows up in list of devices with my public ip so I'm assuming that part is working. The conflict seems to arise when (after looking for advice) you set the PS to auto get it's settings. This SHOULD just work as it is in effect making the PS a modem rather than being routed you would think. I have noticed that the settings auto handed out by the router are as follows.
PS3 IP (my public ip)
Default router 0.0.0.0
Primary DNS 192.168.1.254 router standard ip
Seconday DNS 212.159.6.10 PN's DNS server
People advise manually entering these instead of auto but if you were to enter 0,0,0,0 as the default router the PS gripes that is out side the ip range or not valid something along those lines. Conclusion the auto settings won't work on a PS. I have tried all sorts of combinations PS ip the default router, default router public ip/default router dns servers PN's. None of these combinations work. In fact making the PS your public ip seems to achieve nothing but losing your internet connection to it
A few suggestions out there from reading manuals for other Thomson routers seems to sway towards putting it in bridge mode (I don't fully understand) and separating off one of the ethernet ports to work with DMZ. The problem there being to change these settings you need to be able to access the router with expert settings which seem to be locked away behind PN's branded firmware. There is also tips on installing generic Thomson firmware which will give you access to more settings but where do PN stand on doing that?
Anybody who knows their way round a network I'd love to hear any suggestions on ip settings. Or any suggestions really, there must be an answer out there or PN customers are getting a router that won't DMZ a PS3 and that seems a shame as most nat issues related to PS's are solved by doing just that.
Keep me informed I'm interested to find out how you get on. TBH the only thing I could get to work was UPNP to solve nat issues but this never sorted out the getting disconnected from games 
Looking through your post it looks like you had no success with port forwarding or DMZ and only changed when you flicked through enabling/disabling upnp. I found myself in the exact situation and in the end up not doing any port forwarding or statics and just simply enabled upnp on both the router and the PS3. Everything else on the PS3 you can leave on auto get settings IMO.
You can however once the ps3 has got an ip auto from the router go into the router in devices and put a tick in the box always assign this ip to this device which will save you setting up statics. While your messing with yours you could try some settings if you want? I gave up when the constant re-boots forced my line speed to reduce but I now use a different router which when I put the ps3 into DMZ works a storm getting me a nat type 1.
I wrote down somewhere what the connection settings were when I put the PS3 into the DMZ(assign public ip address to this device) on the thompson router and they were nothing like the settings that my homehub gives it so I could send you them when I get home. I know if you manually enter some of the settings the thompson gives out on the ps3 that a couple of them are outside of the fields allowed so I'm guessing the thompson is never going to work with the settings it gives out.
It's the only thing I haven't tried anyway so would be interesting to see what happens.
Edit* Just realised that the settings the tompson gives out while DMZ is in my previous post
Looking through your post it looks like you had no success with port forwarding or DMZ and only changed when you flicked through enabling/disabling upnp. I found myself in the exact situation and in the end up not doing any port forwarding or statics and just simply enabled upnp on both the router and the PS3. Everything else on the PS3 you can leave on auto get settings IMO.
You can however once the ps3 has got an ip auto from the router go into the router in devices and put a tick in the box always assign this ip to this device which will save you setting up statics. While your messing with yours you could try some settings if you want? I gave up when the constant re-boots forced my line speed to reduce but I now use a different router which when I put the ps3 into DMZ works a storm getting me a nat type 1.
I wrote down somewhere what the connection settings were when I put the PS3 into the DMZ(assign public ip address to this device) on the thompson router and they were nothing like the settings that my homehub gives it so I could send you them when I get home. I know if you manually enter some of the settings the thompson gives out on the ps3 that a couple of them are outside of the fields allowed so I'm guessing the thompson is never going to work with the settings it gives out.
It's the only thing I haven't tried anyway so would be interesting to see what happens.
Edit* Just realised that the settings the tompson gives out while DMZ is in my previous post
Has anyone found a solution yet?
Cheers
Ryan
Cheers
Ryan
Quote from: Ryan1uk Has anyone found a solution yet?
Cheers
Ryan
To be more explicit, my problem isn't with the Thompson 585 v8 router, its caused by a second router on my network.
The one thing that seems to have been useful on the Thompspon 585 v8 router was to open up the ports mentioned here and to move the PS3 into and out of the DMZ (or "Public" space as its called on Thomson routers) as I linked to above.
@slackline
I'm not sure what you mean here, your saying you moved the ps3 into the DMZ then back out, so is it DMZ'd or not? The port forwarding you tried is this with upnp enabled? The links you posted seem to be more towards your particular set up where Ryan is trying to get just his router sorted.
@Ryan
This is still a work in progress m8
I have actually gave up on the router because I was sick of getting booted out of PS3 games but that hasn't stopped me trying to get this router to work. Basically I have found nothing else to work other than enabling UPNP on both the PS3 and the router. No amount of messing around with settings to do with port forwarding or DMZ make any difference IMO until you enable upnp. Upnp changes the setting automatically without intervention from you.
I have tried all the methods mentioned and got no where other than losing sync speed because of reboots on the router. I trawl this board regular to find how other people have managed to forward ports on theirs but have yet to see someone who had done it without using UPNP.
People may enable upnp and manage to have no problems I don't know. It may be a particular game issue but I'm guessing by now you've probably googled the subject and realised that everyone with connection issues gets told first things first static ip's and port forwarding or DMZ.
Set your ps to auto get settings and enable upnp on both you will get nat2. It's between a rock and a hard place I guess, the ps3 doesn't like upnp and the router won't forward ports with out it enabled. You can convince yourself that all your port mappings are working by enabling the upnp bit it's just camouflaging the fact that it doesn't.
I'm not sure what you mean here, your saying you moved the ps3 into the DMZ then back out, so is it DMZ'd or not? The port forwarding you tried is this with upnp enabled? The links you posted seem to be more towards your particular set up where Ryan is trying to get just his router sorted.
@Ryan
This is still a work in progress m8
I have actually gave up on the router because I was sick of getting booted out of PS3 games but that hasn't stopped me trying to get this router to work. Basically I have found nothing else to work other than enabling UPNP on both the PS3 and the router. No amount of messing around with settings to do with port forwarding or DMZ make any difference IMO until you enable upnp. Upnp changes the setting automatically without intervention from you.I have tried all the methods mentioned and got no where other than losing sync speed because of reboots on the router. I trawl this board regular to find how other people have managed to forward ports on theirs but have yet to see someone who had done it without using UPNP.
People may enable upnp and manage to have no problems I don't know. It may be a particular game issue but I'm guessing by now you've probably googled the subject and realised that everyone with connection issues gets told first things first static ip's and port forwarding or DMZ.
Set your ps to auto get settings and enable upnp on both you will get nat2. It's between a rock and a hard place I guess, the ps3 doesn't like upnp and the router won't forward ports with out it enabled. You can convince yourself that all your port mappings are working by enabling the upnp bit it's just camouflaging the fact that it doesn't.
Quote Sorry this wasn't clearer.
No need to be glad your involved in the debate
The more people that post up how they achieved nat 2 the better considering that this is PN's stock router and the amount of ps3's people have. It just seems to me that forwarding ports and enabling upnp is an unnecessary belt and braces approach to getting a nat 2.I found that just enabling upnp achieved the exact same result. Which in effect it should! The whole point of upnp is so you don't have to forward ports. Maybe it's just some sort of quirk with the thompson where you have to do both I don't know networking isn't really my thing. I do know though when I did as you did forwarded the ports then enabled upnp I got booted from games. If I just enable upnp I still get nat 2 and booted from games.
If you check the router logs when you connect you ps3 with no forwarding you will see that the ports you need are getting forwarded to the correct device. When I was searching for information and asked a few more knowledgeable networking people than me they suggested that doing both may cause a conflict where as the upnp is forwarding but rules have already been made for these ports
So my opinion is why set up the forwarding rules which may/may not cause a conflict when it seems that not bothering gets the same result? Also and on a vastly more important issue why are we being forced to use upnp and why does port forwarding or dmz'ing not work without this feature enabled? At the end of the day UPNP is a security risk! Maybe not for the ps3 but definitely for the rest of the equipment on the same network.
Ironically I now use my old Bt router which doesn't even support upnp. I have tried it both in DMZ mode and forwarded ports and never once had any connection issues.
BTW I just remembered I did see some who said they had managed to use the port forwarding and DMZ but they installed thompsons own firmware rather than PN's but I'm not sure where PN stand with this.
Or even better PN to say to thompson we have given you the contract to provide our routers and you have supplied us with one not fit for purpose that we can get too work by compromising the security so give us our money back and we'll get another supplier
I've had a little look about and the router itself doesn't get a lot of bad press generally. I don't know how the firmware operates but is PN's different in any other way to the stock thompson firmware. Considering mine is a now a spare I would be willing to flash it just to see if you thought it would be worth while?
Ooeerr just read that back it went a bit carry on there
I've had a little look about and the router itself doesn't get a lot of bad press generally. I don't know how the firmware operates but is PN's different in any other way to the stock thompson firmware. Considering mine is a now a spare I would be willing to flash it just to see if you thought it would be worth while?
Ooeerr just read that back it went a bit carry on there