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Just half a meg more

Community Veteran
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just half a meg more

I'll probably make a couple of replies - sort of post bites as I keep checking back on a few points, but to start I'll just clarify a couple of things.
First, changing to ADSL2+ should not make matters worse, what improvement it gives remains to be seen, but on the basis of some of the figures so far from ADSL1, it should give an improvement, albeit perhaps only a small amount, but as you know well, every little bit helps.
Second, as zzZzz has already noted, the problem you currently seem to have, started before the change to ADSL2+. Whether this is down to a fault or interference remains to be seen, I'll pursue that aspect with you a little later on.
The BT Business Hubs are extremely good modem/routers and work very well on longer lines such as yours, however I'm not intimately familiar with them and zzZzz clearly is and I believe MisterW is. So I'll look to them for some information if you are unable to find what I want you to look for - which is a Disconnect/Connect button (similar to what you found on the 582n) so that you can drop the PPP Internet session (not the sync). Note that if/when you do this on any modem/router, you will usually have to log back into it and click Connect to re-establish a new PPP session (even after powering it on) so that you can browse the Internet etc.
You are obviously no PC Dummie as claimed, but understanding ADSL can be problematic, so I'll try and explain a few things as we go, in case you haven't got to grips with it.
Your modem/router connects to the Exchange and the sync speed with which it connects determines the BT IP Profile for the Line, this is what ultimately decides what download speed you can get, so when analysing problems, it the sync speed and the other stats we are primarily interested in, as zzZzz has already mentioned.
When you are synced to the exchange, your modem/router DSL/Broadband light should be solid green (different names on different boxes). Flashing usually means signal present trying to connect, Red would usually mean no connection (where Red is an option).
When you have a solid connection to the exchange, you should then be able to establish a PPP session to the Internet Service Provider. The Internet light could be Red, flashing and solid green whilst in the process of getting a PPP connection. To do so, the ISP has to have their end set up so that you can authenticate with their server and there has to be the ISP's realm set up at the exchange - the realm is which ISP's circuit you will connect to. You also have to have your correct username and password set up in the modem/router. Connection is usually automatic if all that is correct, but you can usually change it to manual and you can manually Disconnect and Connect but this depends on the individual model modem/router. Faults (& Maintenance) anywhere between the exchange and the ISP can cause a loss of the PPP connection, but this doesn't affect your sync to the exchange.
HTH.
Superuser
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Re: Just half a meg more

Quote
what I want you to look for - which is a Disconnect/Connect button (similar to what you found on the 582n) so that you can drop the PPP Internet session (not the sync)
My home 2700's are all v5 f/w whereas roberts is a v6. The is no disconnect/connect button as such on the 2700 but there is a 'Reset ISP Connection' button which will do a disconnect followed by a reconnect of the PPP session. On the v5 firmware its found in the 'Resets' section of the Management and Diagnostics console'. Assuming the same facility exists on v6 I would assume it's under the Diagnostics section. If that's not the case, and robert can't find it, I've got a v6 in the office I can look at on Monday. 
Community Veteran
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Re: Just half a meg more

Thanks for that MisterW, let's see what Robert might be able to find. A Reset ISP Connection button won't be a great deal of help for what I had in mind. But I may as well ask if such a Reset ISP Connection button is presumably good for a Gateway Hop?
Superuser
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Re: Just half a meg more

Certainly is, I've used in for that recently. I also used it when on the CGNAT trial. I would change my username/password to the trial one and then use the Reset ISP connection to connect with the new details, without dropping the DSL connection.
I'm not sure whether you can change the username on a v6 without it automatically trying to reconnect though...
Community Veteran
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Re: Just half a meg more

Well we won't be trying to change the username, so you can try that one at work  Wink  Grin
Handy to know at least one can Gateway hop easily if needed - for Robert's benefit you can check which Gateway you are on - that's the first Router at the Plusnet end that you connect to.
Just to complete the information for Robert about speeds etc. On 21CN (whatever mode of ADSL - whether 1, 2, or 2+) the IP Profile is 88.2% if the sync speed - and as you've seen this is also displayed on the BTw Diagnostic Speed Test. When the automated systems are working correctly, that is when you sync speed changes (and hence the profile) the BTw systems send a Delta report to Plusnet and their automated systems should update your Current Line speed (Login required) to match. This hasn't been happening correctly for a lot of users for various reasons, and if it's lower than the Profile it will limit the speed, so if you get a speed test result somewhat lower than the profile then check your Current Line speed. With yours as it was at 7.15Mbps (the default value for a new connection on ADSL1) it wouldn't restrict the download speed - but as I mentioned earlier it's sync speeds we need to concentrate on first.
When posting information from the BTw speedtest and from the Current Line Speed, there is no need to do a screen grab and post a graphic. Just do a Copy and Paste - starting at  "1. Best Effort Test" forthe BTw test result, and obviously just the Current Line speed there.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just half a meg more

Right, back to why the current speed is so low. The Bitloading plot shows a definite pattern that IMHO looks like interference from a Switch Mode Power Supply (SMPS). It's knocking back the number of bits available to use for data, and so the speed is slower.
Robert, can you think what "electronic" items of equipment would have been switched on at 1723 & 1926 on the 30th (Thursday) and at 0857 on Friday 31st?
I'm thinking things like TV possibly, Sky or other Satellite or Freeview boxes, also items like Compact Fluorescent Lighting, Low Voltage Halogen Lighting using electronic transformers, anything using a SMPS - in other words, not things like Fridges, Freezers, Washing machines or other heavy electrical items.
If you can answer that, and ideally if you can find a Disconnect button, we can take the next step.
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Re: Just half a meg more

I've had issues in the past with a slightly dodgy Microwave oven - it caused dropouts everytime it was used.
bill888
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Re: Just half a meg more

fwiw, attached jpeg is from Resets menu of 2700/2701 running v6 firmware.
Reset IP/PPP - Disconnects and Reconnects PPP session (eg. Plusnet gateway hopping).
Reset Broadband - Disconnects DSL line and PPP session, and then reconnects.

To recap, the disconnect at 0857 was due to previously placed order to switch from ADSL1 to ADSL2+.
Regarding the incident at 1926, I wonder if the phone was ringing at the time of the disconnect?  I've encountered that issue when my upstream was uncapped on ADSL2+ last autumn.
Community Veteran
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Re: Just half a meg more

Thanks for the screen grab, so it doesn't look as though there's any option for doing a "graceful" disconnect.
It doesn't really matter at this moment what might have actually caused the 3 resyncs, I'm making an assumption (albeit only a small one) that as the sync speed was pretty much the same each time, that the interference that I've mentioned was present at the time of each resync.
robert1935
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Re: Just half a meg more

I have checked everything and nothing has happened out of the ordinary to interfere with the connections, nothing is different in the house to when I was with BT  (sorry to keep comparing PN with BT) and the speeds were fine
EXCEPT one thing, I agreed to take part in the survey carried out by Samknows and at same time as I switched over to PN I wired in their white box, now I could remove that, but I would have to disconnect the hub, and there is no switch to do this, I have looked on the hubs software I can not see any command to disconnect.
The only other thing that happened is when I couldn't access anything on the net for nearly 20mins although the routers lights were all normal, the connection icon just sat there going round and round, no messages appeared  finally rang PN who said they would check, after a couple of mins they came back and said they had solved the problem it was according to them a blockage in the exchange, and they had rectified it, the browser started OK., they told me to disconnect my router and leave off for 5mins and then everything would be back to normal, I had to disconnect the PSU to do this, something I don't like doing, the first thing I did after reconnecting was to check my speeds, 1.5, before that it was 3.4, and the speeds have been low ever since, although they are now upto 2.01.
Apologies for taking up everyone's time, but I do appreciate the help.
Regards Bob
Superuser
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Re: Just half a meg more

Quote
I wired in their white box

Well that's a TP Link router with some special f/w , it's certainly got an SMPS!.  As I understand it, that is connected by ethernet between your router and the reset of your network. It effectively acts as a bridge.
Community Veteran
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Just half a meg more

But it would have been connected anyway when the 4Mbps odd sync speed was obtained, so I doubt that's the culprit.
Superuser
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Re: Just half a meg more

Since it's just a bridge it should be possible to just disconnect any wired connections, from the white box, connect them to the 2701, and then power down the white box temporarily, without disturbing the 2701. We could then look at the bit loading to see if there was any change...
Community Veteran
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Re: Just half a meg more

Robert, I need to make it crystal clear that neither PN nor any ISP including BT can cause or prevent the sort of interference that is/was present when you resynced or grabbed the Bitloading image.
The longer you continue to think that it's something to do with PN, the longer it will take to solve. In view of MisterW's comments about the White Box, then that would be a simple easy check to make without disrupting your sync with the exchange - which now that dusk is approaching is something you don't want to do with your long line.
So what I would recommend is do another screen grab of the Bitloading and post it. If it looks the same as before then I would do what MisterW has suggested as soon as possible and when it's out of circuit and the PSU is unplugged from the mains, do a further screen grab of the Bitloading and post it.
Also, just because nothing in the house is "different" that you can see/tell doesn't mean that there's no problem (unless you've been using a spectrum analyser) - I'll explain more on that topic later.
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Re: Just half a meg more

Looking at that bit loading chart, the interval of the amplitude fluctuations is mostly 34.5KHz between troughs, with a couple spaced at 38.8KHz.
While those frequencies might be used in switch mode power supplies, I wouldn't expect to see quite so many harmonics and with such consistent amplitude.  I doubt whether this is a power supply problem, as cheap SMPs use square wave switching which will produce a predominance of odd harmonics.
I do wonder if Robert's phone line is picking up radio frequencies though.
The dip at tone 46 happens to coincide with BBC Radio 4 on 198KHz,
the deep trough at tone 58 could be Irish "RTE Radio 1" on 252KHz LW,
the gap at tone 110 is where the new amateur radio LF band 472 to 479KHz appeared in January,
these dips might be an indicator that Robert's setup is susceptible to RF pickup.
Being in West Wales, I wonder if he is located near an airport or port, as the frequency range of the interference pattern are reserved for navigation.
Trans-Atlantic boats and planes use NDB (non-directional bacons) on the Welsh and Irish coast using the 190-535 kHz band for long range positioning, and those frequencies pretty much cover the width of Robert's downstream bit tones.  
I have yet to discover whether these beacon frequencies happen to be separated by approximately 35KHz.
UK Table of Radio Frequency Allocations 9kHz - 105GHz

Here is an interesting forum thread The Effects of MW Transmitters on ADSL2+,  which also happens to be in Wales, and has an interesting graph like Robert's - although the one in the thread has a much higher set of tones which is why it gets MW interference.  It would be handy to know what program produced that chart.
Plusnet FTTC 80/20 IPv4/30, Hurricane Electric 6in4 IPv6/48, Pulse8 landline & calls, SamKnows 600N
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