Quote from: The

I wouldn't worry so much about the data from RouterStat's. Although it can look pretty..It mainly displays useless and irrelevant data. In my opinion, it will never show the true picture behind any connection.

Well I'm sorry to see that sort of comment to say the least. Whilst I would accept that it can't display a complete picture behind any connection, neither can Plusnet testing alone. Both can give valuable information. To say that it mainly displays useless and irrelevant data is just plain untrue and is extremely short sighted. Nor does it look pretty, Alex's connection is far from pretty. It clearly shows some sort of event causing a drop in SNRM, which is periodically causing a dropped connection. THAT is a fault. Whilst raising the Target SNRM may help prevent some or all of the drops it does not cure the source of the event which could still result in poor performance from higher error rates and certainly gives a much poorer customer experience resulting from the slower speed.

Anotherone.....lets just say I am very dissapointed.
To me there does not seem to be the 'will' to get to the botttom of the problems I have been having for the best part of 2012. I appreciate I am a little fish in a big sea......but I am a paying customer at the end of the day. I would like to think I am getting the very best service for my monthly payment to Plusnet. I am no expert (and I have said it before) but I feel that the symptoms are being treated and a cure is not really being sought for the underlying problem.
As far as Router Stats is concerned, I would have expected that any fault analyist would welcome the additional data. As I have come to learn there are gradual and sudden ups and downs in SNRM.......what a fantastic way to clearly plot and demonstrate SNRM behaviour. In any fault situation I would expect ALL information to be pulled together......to assist is analysis. In my case it is made all the much more interesting by the '1428hrs  event' on the 31st October.........
Don't know where to turn or what to do now.....as I am told that '......there is no real fault here.......'
Alex
PS should I remain in the test socket of the BT Master Socket via a rats tail or should I use the filtered faceplate that BT put on earlier in the year? FYI My BT Master Socket is the only live socket in my house (therefore I have no internal wiring involved AT ALL). The BT man that put the filtered faceplate on said they are 'better' than a rats tail when fitting it.

Sync survived this 25 min 'event'  just now......yes another 'event'........

@alex7127
I'm sorry that a member of staff hasn't replied to this for a while. I've just taken the time to read through this thread from the start and look over the details of what's been discussed here with a senior colleague from the faults team.
Where as we would agree that something does seem to cause some level of interference with your line which seems to cause some disconnections, the level of the disconnection is not to a level where it would have a negative impact on connection speeds or indeed be to a sufficient level as to where we can log a fault with BT Wholesale.
I'm sorry if you find this disappointing or perhaps dismissive maybe but our suppliers to apply criteria as to when a fault report can be accepted and unfortunately what's been happening here doesn't meet that.
I don't agree with what's been said about router stats to be honest, whilst they do not show an overall picture of any potential issues with a connection it does go towards helping build a bigger and clearer picture, however we look at that along side all the other relevant data such as the results of BTW diagnostic tests and RADIUS connection graphs as we have in this case.
I thought I'd include our RADIUS logs for the past week for you:
<img src="http://ccgi.psmith12.plus.com/visradius/generated/image13518539089213.png" />

Todays event.........
This is so weird. Seen to get them once a day now......but never at the same time.
Alex

I assume there was no loss of sync as you haven't mentioned it. Can you post the stats so that we can what the errors are like?

Hi Chris, sorry for yesterday, was having trouble with getting my thoughts straight! Much better today
No, no loss of sync
DSL Stats attatched
Seems to be low seismic activity for the last few days on my connection........just waiting for the bigger quakes to start again!
Alex

The more I re-read the response on that ticket and the more I think about it, the more gob-smacked I am. I'm not surprised Alex felt offended especially considering the immediately preceding remarks on the ticket  Here is some of them

Quote

Since connecting the test socket and the modify back to Ipstream over ADSL2/WBC, there no longer appears to be a fault on your line. As the connection is stable from the test socket, I see no real reason to continue the issue any further. Confirmed there is no DCN here however from the test socket which means no L&S or TPM is needed. 3 of the 7 drops since 27th have been down to us. Line stable considering loop loss. Indicative Line Quality: R    Mean Time Between Errors Downstream (Seconds): 104 * Circuit stable    * Circuit in sync  * MSR and FTR not relevant  * No real fault here

Some of those comments seem inconsistent IMHO. Also note that there is no internal wiring, there is only a SSFP and the results from that are just the same, so it isn't faulty.!
Alex's line problems and it's irregularity are well known to certain Plusnet staff.
How very unhelpful and convenient just to say that because these wild 4dB+ swings in SNRM aren't causing a loss of sync at this particular instant that "there is no real fault". If there were no previous issues, then as this problem currently doesn't fall within BTw's 'definition' of a fault, those comments might be reasonable, and it is appreciated that it would be virtually impossible to push anything to BTw at this moment.
Mind you, initial response to the current ticket by the agent(s) who clearly has no idea what they were doing was not helped by the fact that the notes that had been placed on Alex's MAAF account were not transferred or linked to the Plusnet account when he changed.
Perhaps there is something there for Plusnet to learn when people move accounts.
Well Adam I'm glad that you don't agree with what was said about RouterStats on the ticket, and that it has a roll in helping to provide a bigger and clearer picture. But I will take issue with one part of your comment

Quote

they do not show an overall picture of any potential issues with a connection.

I'm afraid that is precisely what they do give, primarily because if used correctly they show a continuous picture of what is happening to the users connection. In some circumstances you have to be careful about interpretation without other data, and I'll come back to this point.
However, exactly the same can be said of Radius logs. No doubt for the majority of users, they can represent a dropped sync, but without knowing whether a particular user has been gateway hopping or rebooting or been suffering power failures, they can be wildly misinterpreted and I'm afraid that there are too many who are not made aware of this.
BTw Diagnostic tests show the current status and some detailed history of the connection as does a Delta Report. But AFAIK, Plusnet, nor any ISP, either does or has the ability to continually monitor a user's connection. It used to be that even RRT-DLM Graphs from the KBD test could at best only look at 15 minute intervals over the last 14 days. I find it rather amusing (it is the wrong word) that this comment quote "Although it can look pretty. It mainly displays useless and irrelevant data" is made about  RouterStats when RRT-DLM graphs can produce exactly the same but only with a 15 minutes sampling rate.
Clearly some people must think that the output from some of BTw's own tests is useless and irrelevant data then! Odd, that I understand that the DLM graphs are often used when investigating some problems on business lines!
However, very detailed information and data can be obtained from the users modem/router - from its own logging if it has that facility and ability to log the appropriate information, or from external software such as RouterStats, DMT etc. but again this is dependant on the modem/router's firmware and whether it provides the relevant data, and the sampling rate that is set. The default rate in DMT is 8 seconds and I use and suggest the same for Routerstats, although 10 seconds is the best that can be achieved interfacing with some modem/routers.
So what next? Well, I remarked earlier about interpretation as it wasn't clear what exactly happened at 1428 on the 31st. Well now we know that at 1428 there was an "intrusive test",  perhaps we could start with an opinion from Plusnet Faults as to why the "intrusive test" provoked the SNRM response that followed. Don't rely on the RSL graph that was posted, have a look at the RRT-DLM Graphs which should clearly show it, as it lasted for just over ~45 minutes.

Quote from: Anotherone

[RouterStats shows] a continuous picture of what is happening to the users connection.

Whilst I concur whole-heartedly with your dismay at the insensitive response Alex received over the use of routerstats as an indicator in analysis of his issues, it can be useful as part of a suite of tests, in defence of the inconsiderate oaf who made it the application can vary in its representation of issues ie using it to monitor the same problem with a different router might elicit an entirely different picture.  That is not to say that it would have done so in this case but I have seen it happen where monitoring one router showed occasional minor fluctuations in noise,say regular +or- 1-2 point changes, moments later monitoring a second router it was showing rapid 6-9 point swings, then back to the 1-2 points jumps when the original router was plugged back in (both are still in good working order).  
Like I say, I don't agree with the manner or tone in which the point was presented, nor in the point itself in this case, but I can understand what might have prompted it.

@Clifftop
These issues have been present intermittently and irregularly for some considerable time (months) and the picture was pretty much identical on another modem router. The differences you have seen will likely be related to the performance of the particular modem/routers and maybe different compatibility issues with the DSLAM/MSAN. There are a few threads round this forum on those sort of topics.
Alex's problem were present when he was on 20CN and are pretty much identical since migration to 21CN although his line is more stable and giving better performance when set to ADSL1 on 21CN. The only things that haven't been done to try and resolve the issue are at the exchange or a proper REIN investigation.

Head brick wall......head brick wall......head brick wall......
Guess what happened this morning between approx 7.55 and 8.26am (31minutes).........yup you guessed it......see RSL graph....
And yes this time I did lose sync.....and yes it did resync lower.......
What do I do guys????
Alex

Got to be something very noisy switching on and off.  Are you friendly enough with any of your neighbours to enlist their help to see if they suffer the same problem?  Presumably their phone lines are aggregated with yours nearby then share the same cabling to the telephone exchange.

It would be easy to agree Reed.......but what about the 'event' of 31st October.......Plusnets 'testing' caused the same 'event' as logged with RS........can some sort of testing (presumably at exchange level) cause the same noise event?

What sync speed have you got now Alex? The stats may be useful.