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To whom are you selling my details?

tony8436
Grafter
Posts: 196
Registered: ‎16-12-2010

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

They do say text stop to a number, but if you do this, they simply send a slightly differently worded message from another number.  It is possible that it is a different company, but the messages are too similar and the new one only starts after you send stop to the first.
tony8436
Grafter
Posts: 196
Registered: ‎16-12-2010

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

Just a thought, PN say they will not pass our details for marketing purposes, but they did pass alot of details to ACS law as mentioned in another thread.  Is it possible that it is ACS law that are passing our details for marketing purposes, after all, they do seem to be a scam company.  This would explain why so many of us are getting these calls and texts, with PN being the only obvious link.  Not trying to stick up for PN, just trying to get to the bottom of it.
WWWombat
Grafter
Posts: 1,412
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

Quote from: tony8436
They do say text stop to a number, but if you do this, they simply send a slightly differently worded message from another number.  It is possible that it is a different company, but the messages are too similar and the new one only starts after you send stop to the first.

That does indeed happen, but not by anyone intent on keeping their text service going legally. It isn't quite such an easy thing to avoid as email spam.
Text messages *can* be traced back through the system, even if they have a "from" address of an Alphanumeric string, and no numbers. They can be traced from mobile network back to a service provider (who manage the connections to all 5 mobile networks), and thence back to the original sender. The service providers do stop service after complaints about failing to STOP, and can be very demanding over abuses, even when inadvertent. I developed and ran services like this at the time the STOP feature came in, and have been involved in such tracing.
But I agree - there is nothing you can do to stop someone from sending out spam, if they don't care that they will lose their service by doing so.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
tony8436
Grafter
Posts: 196
Registered: ‎16-12-2010

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

@ wwwombat,
You seem to be very knowledgable about most things on here, any thoughts on my last post saying that it may be ACS law selling the details they obtained from PN?
WWWombat
Grafter
Posts: 1,412
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Registered: ‎29-01-2009

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

Knowledgable in tech, but perhaps too trusting at other things  Huh
I guess my first question would be - did ACS have your number in the first place? Where your details amongst those handed over by Plusnet?
My general thoughts on lawyers are that you can trust them when they're on your side - so long as you understand the thought processes going on in their head. Legal logic isn't the same as technology logic, so things aren't quite so plain.
If the lawyer is on someone else's side, then don't trust them at all, because they're playing to an unknown agenda - which might be a different agenda from their client, and might be different from anything stated.
The closest attention I pay to anything really legal is the SCO vs Novell argument that's been going on in the US. The war is about Linux, but the initial battle is over ownership of Unix copyrights. Its been going on for 8 years, with SCO going into banckruptcy in order to continue the fight, even though they weren't bankrupt. Its an unholy nightmare, and has proven it is a world that isn't inhabitted by ordinary logic and common sense.
It is a world where the right answer is probably eventually reachable - but only if you don't fall foul of some arcane legal technicality, and you have enough money to keep feeding the system, the patience of a saint and the tenacity of a bulldog. The UK system can kill off fatuous legal action quicker than the US, but it is still slow & expensive, and full of arcanary.
So... I broadly wouldn't trust ACS or the people they represented in any way. If I could trust that they wanted to keep practicing law in the future, I'd expect they'd have *some* amount of respect for the judges, so wouldn't do something *obviously & traceably* wrong with the details they got hold of. But now the whole shebang is up in the air, it might be a way they are trying to recoup some money
But my lack of trust is a long way from actually suspecting them. I don't think there has been enough evidence pointing their way.
After all, the scam on getting text messages related to accident claims was big enough to get mentioned on Watchdog the other day. It looks like it is using lists way bigger than the ACS thing.
But frankly, they could easily be buying the details from some list broker somewhere, or even plausibly just using random numbers. It is about 3p-4p per message sent, so everything just depends on the statistics of hour many people respond, and how many numbers are illegal, compared with the profit from each scammed person.
Plusnet Customer
Using FTTC since 2011. Currently on 80/20 Unlimited Fibre Extra.
tony8436
Grafter
Posts: 196
Registered: ‎16-12-2010

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

It was just an idea as to how so many people seem to be getting these texts.  As you may have guessed from my other posts, I'm not PN's biggest fan, but do believe them when they say they don't give details for marketing, which made me think that somebody who obtained our details for another reason is selling them for marketing and ACS seemed to be the most obvious as they appear to be scamming alot of people.
carrot63
Grafter
Posts: 599
Registered: ‎12-07-2007

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

Doesn't anyone from Plusnet find this a bit odd yet? A disparate group of people with apparently little in common except having provided mobile numbers to the same ISP, yet they're all getting very similar types of spam calls/SMS? My girlfriend and I have 4 mobile numbers between us, three of which get no spam SMS at all, yet the least distributed (apart from PN/BT faults) of the four numbers gets SMS spam similar in nature to other users. Not porn or casino or dating promos, but accident claims. Funny eh?
Anyone know if it's possible to make a collective complaint to the ICO? Surely this merits a bit more rigorous digging from Plusnet.

EDIT: misread WWWwombats post, quote removed. Comment stands, however
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

i had a call on my home phone yesterday from this lot offering legal protection against credit cards, if you look at other than Tucam Claims as the url you will find they have been trying to close this Swansea business down since 2009
Quote
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toucan claims are they genuine???? - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums
22 Apr 2010 ... its not a scam anyway, its a legal claim, the argument here is that it can ... Toucan claims are a marketing exercise, their call centre operatives are all ...
forums.moneysavingexpert.com › ... › Pure Money › Credit Cards - Cached - Similar
Tucan Claims‎ - 4 Feb 2011
Toucan Claims‎ - 18 Aug 2010
Tucan Claims - Is this real?‎ - 23 Apr 2010
More results from forums.moneysavingexpert.com »
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toucan claims are they genuine???? - Page 2 - MoneySavingExpert ...
Page 2- toucan claims are they genuine???? Credit Cards. ...
forum.moneysavingexpert.com › ... › Pure Money › Credit Cards - Cached
Show more results from moneysavingexpert.com
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08450044237 / 08450044237 calls 2/8
20 posts - 18 authors - Last post: 8 Apr 2010
these scumbag scam artists toucan claims have repeatedly phoned me even though ive told them i am registered with TPS. Caller: toucan claims ...
whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/08450044237/2 - Cached - Similar
bobpullen
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 16,900
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Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

Quote from: tony8436
Just a thought, PN say they will not pass our details for marketing purposes, but they did pass alot of details to ACS law as mentioned in another thread.  Is it possible that it is ACS law that are passing our details for marketing purposes, after all, they do seem to be a scam company.

IIRC the data forwarded to ACS:Law did *not* contain any telephone numbers. There was a telephone number column on some of the spreadsheets but that information was not populated.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

LKBunny
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎02-11-2011

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

This query needs to be re-opened/re-addressed as I have just received spam text on a PAYG mobile phone whose number has ONLY been given (outside immediate family) to Plusnet. The phone is usually switched off and I do not have voicemail, hence why they could only text.  I have had the phone for 20 months with not one single spam text, because it is not listed anywhere else. I gave Plusnet the number so they could advise of updates during my broadband switchover 3 months ago, and it was my understanding that the number was for Plusnet's use only should they wish to contact me. Plusnet also have my landline number, and I am concerned that if I remove the mobile from my contact details, that I will instead be spammed up the wazoo on my landline (which, incidentally has also had an increase in spam calls, but I cannot prove Plusnet is the culprit). The mobile, however, can only have been Plusnet's origin. FWIW, the spam text was advising that one may be able to claim if a loan had been taken out since 2007 (N/A in my case).
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 881
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎14-08-2009

Re: To whom are you selling my details?


More likely to be random number text spamming - so they did not actually get the number from anywhere.
My mobile has never had spam from anywhere, then suddenly a rash of "you should claim for the accident you had" spam messages.
None of which were replied to in anyway
then they stopped.
My mobile number's circulation is a bit like yours - but to a lesser extent.  It's basically friends and banks/credit card firms along with BT/plusnet plus a few others I've forgotten have got it.
I never have any problem on my landline with spam calls, mind you I'm both ex directory and not in the "published edition" of the electoral roll......
Random number generating stuff is how some of the credit card fraud happens.  The scammers just generate card numbers by the millions, 99.9% don't work, but the odd few do....and the victim wonders where they got their card number from.
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

I am not in the phone book or the published electoral role, but 192.com have my details from somewhere
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 881
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎14-08-2009

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

I'm sure that somewhere on the 192.com site there must be a form to fill in to get them to remove your details from their site.
Ah yes
Removal of personal details.....half way down this page
http://www.192.com/help/help-home/
LKBunny
Newbie
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎02-11-2011

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

@ x47c = Your mobile circulation is far greater than mine, not lesser. As I said, it's only immediate family which is 3 people who all live with me, as well as Plusnet. Everyone else only has my landline, which is my preferred contact. The only reason I gave plusnet the mobile was because they specifically said they would advise of broadband switchover updates by text if a mobile number was given.
I'm not convinced it's random number text spamming, especially after reading this thread. It's a little too convenient an answer to give someone who has gone 20 months without any spam because the number hadn't been given out to anyone but immediate family for 17 of those months, and then receives spam for the first time ever just 3 months after giving the number out to Plusnet.
I'll wait to see what Plusnet staff say on here before I decide what further action to take.
P.S. My landline is Ex-directory, TPS registered and SilentCall-gard registered, plus I have opted out of the edited electoral roll.  Yet still the odd spam call gets through to it, and recently it has increased.
spraxyt
Resting Legend
Posts: 10,063
Thanks: 674
Fixes: 75
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: To whom are you selling my details?

I expect once a number is identified as 'live', it gets sold to a 'spammers directory' (inevitably there will be one somewhere) so that others give it a try too.
David