Line Rental Saver confusion

[#1]

I posted elsewhere - http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,122250.msg1060344.html#msg1060344 - prior to knowing about this topic about the obtuseness of PlusNet's phone offering. This topic seems to confirm that BT is definitely the preferable option for some..

[#2]

Quote from: Ben

Our Commercial team have decided that LRS should now only be available without calls. Unfortunately we cannot go into the commercial reasoning behind this.

Apart from the secrecy behind your statement it appears to be untrue.
If I go to http://www.plus.net/addphone/ I get offered 12 months LRS with options: "Plusnet Line Only", "Plusnet Anytime", or "Plusnet Anytime International 300" - but crucially for me not "Evenings & Weekends"

[#3]

LRS is available as "line only" on our new product set, customers on our legacy product set can add LRS to any talk package (not sure why you don't see E&W)
Edit: please see http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,123040.msg1068307.html#msg1068307

[#4]

I'm afraid confusion reigns...
If that's a response to my posting would I not be on "new product" having a BT phone service at present. Or does the fact I have broadband from Plusnet putme into a "legacy" category. And if you're "not sure" what state does that put your potential customers in?
Why is life so complicated?

[#5]

Yes there is sometimes an impression of much confusion within Plusnet you only have to look through the "Ask Jess" help info etc on the web site to see that some things not updated or corrected or perhaps even removed if no longer relevant.
According to the PN info attached a customer or potential customer should be able to have the LRS mk2  with an "Evening and Weekends" call package at an additional cost of £1.50 per month, the "Weekend" only call package is no longer available with the mk2 LRS.

[#6]

Ben, In the page which DRJ quoted - http://www.plus.net/addphone/ - it appears to offer Anytime to (new) LRS customers.  It also appears to confirm that it is possible to switch my phone line straight into an LRS deal (I already have broadband with Plusnet).  But one of your colleagues told me earlier this week that I would first have to take out a monthly contract and then change to LRS at a later date.  Please clarify.  Many thanks.

[#7]

Yes, it is offering talk packages when choosing LRS, it shouldn't so I've raised problem 79149.
There is no confusion internally with regards to what should be offered. It doesn't help when we have the problem noted above, people working around the system (product changes after purchase) and potential errors on the website (Jess).
@drj
Legacy Talk packages start "Talk" e.g. "Talk Anytime" as opposed to the new "Plusnet..." e.g. "Plusnet Anytime". If you do not currently have phone and wish to add it, you would get the new product.
Edit: please see http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,123040.msg1068307.html#msg1068307

[#8]

Ben, in your signature, it says that you have been a Product Analyst, a Technical Support Analyst, and a couple of others as well, so I find it difficult to think of a reason for the vagueness of your answers.
You say that there is 'no confusion internally', so why can't you just spell it all out on here?  You seem to suggest that it is the customers who are creating their own problems by 'working around the system'.
What 'system' would you be referring to?  There seems to be no 'system' in place - that is 'the problem'.  That is why I do not feel 'safe' to switch my landline to Plusnet.
Please read my earlier post again, and have a go at answering the question in the second bit of it - I think you failed to notice it before.

[#9]

@KK
I don't know the specific mechanics of LRS around the customer activation journey because I have never signed up a customer to LRS - I left the CSC before its introduction. I do, however, take great interest in the product definitions created by our Commercial teams and the end result of their implementations - that is, in effect, my entire job. Any vagueness in my answers is certainly unintentional but nobody knows everything and I certainly don't claim to do so.
There is, still, no confusion internally around the product rules for LRS. I never stated that customers were working around the system but tried to guard my words to be non-accusatory. As with any system as complex as an ISPs CRM, order management & billing system, there are scenarios that were not originally thought out when the rules for LRS were set. As such, there may be ways of circumventing those rules. I can change any WLR customer to a legacy WLR product and add LRS. Is this a broken system? No - I need the ability to modify packages to the legacy product set. Does this allow the potential for me to circumvent product rules? Yes.
With regards to the 'second bit' of your question are you referring to:

Quote from: KK

(O)ne of your colleagues told me earlier this week that I would first have to take out a monthly contract and then change to LRS at a later date.  Please clarify.  Many thanks.

To the best of my understanding, an existing xDSL customer with WLR needs to sign up without LRS and then add LRS after activation. However, please see my earlier comments stating I've never needed to do this myself.

[#10]

Ben, on this page: http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/ there are three possible phone options for the Broadband/Phone package:
1. Plusnet Weekends
2. Plusnet Anytime
3. Plusnet Anytime International 300
Each of those options contains a clickable Line Rental Link: http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/#homePhoneInfo which says:
"Line Rental
When you switch your phone service to Plusnet you'll pay line rental to us, instead of your current provider. Pay £14.50 monthly and get your weekend calls included, or save money with Line Rental Saver.
Line Rental Saver
Pay for 12 months line rental in advance for £131.88, equivalent to a monthly price of £10.99 (only available online). This option does not include any inclusive calls.
Call features and call charges will still be billed monthly."
I have switched my phone service to Plusnet (based on the saving I would make in having LRS) and now have the combined broadband and phone package. I was so pleased about the apparent saving, that I even tried to drum up some business for you here: http://bit.ly/L434rY(195,000 readers - and still rising).
So I don't understand why your CS is refusing to allow me to purchase LRS - can you clarify?
Thanks.

[#11]

The lack of clarity over the Plusnet LRS scheme, combined with the fact that Plusnet's evening and weekend call charges are the same as their daytime charges, has convinced me to look elsewhere.  If I were to switch my landline to Plusnet, then I would save £2.50 a month on my broadband.  But that saving could very easily be eaten up by the cost of just one or two 0845 calls in any given month.
I have had no problems at all with my broadband, and if I had been able to get through to customer services, I would probably have switched my landline without giving it too much thought.

[#12]

@creamola
Sorry for any confusion, but the response from CSC was right, at least if your question is interpreted as "I would like LRS and weekend calls" because we only offer LRS with no included calls.
In the picture you added to your ticket, as proof to the contrary, it even shows that this is correct - I highlighted a bit in red to show you.
Edit: please see http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,123040.msg1068307.html#msg1068307

[#13]

This page - http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/line-rental-saver/ - states:
"Pay for your line rental up front, just pay for your call plan and calls each month"
and
"Line Rental Saver provides 12 months standard phone line rental. Call plans, non-inclusive calls and call features will be billed each month"
What is a "call plan" if it's not "Weekends", "Evenings and Weekends" or "All calls"?

[#14]

This page - http://www.plus.net/home-broadband/line-rental-saver-faq/ - states:
Can I change my call plan?
Yes, normal rules for call plan changes apply, you can change your call plan at any time, so long as you've not changed it in the previous 30 days.

[#15]

Quote from: Ben

@creamola Sorry for any confusion, but the response from CSC was right, at least if your question is interpreted as "I would like LRS and weekend calls" because we only offer LRS with no included calls. In the picture you added to your ticket, as proof to the contrary, it even shows that this is correct - I highlighted a bit in red to show you.

Sorry Ben, but that's not an interpretation that would stand up to any scrutiny by OFCOM, the ASA or Sheffield Trading Standards.
That entire page (and the online contract I signed) offers 3 Broadband phone packages:
1. Plusnet Weekends
2. Plusnet Anytime
3. Plusnet Anytime International 300
For two of those packages, there are additional charges for additional services and for one, Plusnet Weekends, there is no additional charge - because that is the minimum Broadband AND Phone Package that you can purchase.
The wording for LRS (it's the same for ALL of the packages - this bit is important) says that you can pay for 12 months line rental in advance for £131.88 and that this option does not include any inclusive calls. The interpretation of this would be that yes, for any of those packages, just paying a discounted line rental for 12 months in advance doesn't confer any additional benefits like inclusive calls - for why else would you make the offer in the options for the Weekends Package, to purchase LRS - when it is not actually possible to purchase?
Now, absolutely I understand what you may be trying to achieve - i.e. to say that you can only purchase LRS with either Plusnet Anytime or Plusnet Anytime International 300, but that is NOT what you are offering on that page and not what any reasonable person who intends to purchase, or who purchased,  Plusnet and Weekends would understand the offering to be.
I don't want an argument about what means what - as I am more than happy to make a formal request to the aforementioned bodies to adjudicate.
To repeat, I all I want to do, is purchase LRS so I can reduce my overall telephony costs for the year - which, due to the advertised ability to purchase LRS with the weekend package, is the reason I moved my telephony to Plusnet.
Thanks.