SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
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- Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
22-05-2014 4:53 PM
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You sound like someone with an interest in finding out how things work and get a buzz out of using your brains. No need to get out more, so long as doing such things remains enjoyable.
Why 612kHz - a good question. I've simply passed onto you the "commonly understood" frequency to look at.
Now you've made me think and use my own brains! 612kHz is around tone 142 (612.375kHz). ADSL2+ extends all they way up to tone 512 (2208kHz). So for ADSL2/2+ 612kHz sits about one-third up the spectrum. If you wanted to do a proper job, then an automated frequency scanner spanning 130kHz to 2208kHz might be useful. Someone with more knowledge of the frequency spectrum (harmonics etc.) might have a better explanation of why 612kHz on its own is thought to be adequate.
Kevin
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
22-05-2014 5:49 PM
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Anyway. One for plusnet bods. I'm home now, and things are back on the up! I'm actually quicker than dialup at the moment and away from that pesky 288kbps band.
Router stats..
Noise Margin: 12.7 dB
Connection Rate: 1148 Kbps
Line Attenuation: 64.0 dB
Power: 0.0 dBm
Max Rate: 2060 Kbps
SuperFrames: 354701
SF (CRC) Errors: 126
Reed Solomon: 5852570
RS Corrected: 4415
RS Un-Corrected: 578
HEC: 111
Errored Seconds: 21911
Severe ES: 3584
Interleave Depth: 8
Bitswaps: 31
Attn has dropped a bit, SNR is stable so far.. Nothing has changed here in the house, but it has been pi.... erm.. "persistently" raining all day. Any ideas from your side of things?
*edit* I'm going to reset those stats, those errors could well be "historical" going back numerous days as I leave the router on 24/7. Let's see if they start to creep up again. Also, 612khz nice and quiet at the mo!
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
22-05-2014 6:10 PM
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
23-05-2014 8:17 AM
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As you can see, things stayed fairly stable until 6.45 or so, and then it started decaying and so on. A fairly slow decay compared to my other episodes but there it was. I thought I would let it go for so long until things started to drop below 6db or so and then play with the phone handset.
At gone 11 I noticed I was heading into 4db territory, so I nipped upstairs and took the phone off hook at around 11.30. You can see this quite clearly in the graph.
A few wobbles and it stabilised again. A resync at 5.30 or so, and that was that.
No noticeable noise on the LW/MW/HF bands when this was happening, but to keep things clean I tried to find the "noisiest" thing in the house and see what affect that has upon things. And that, my friends, is an egg incubator. It uses a cheapy switch mode PSU and it wipes out my radios from DC to around 25Mhz with S9 of "buzzzzzzzzzzzz".
See the last graph there, timed at 7.58. That .4 or so dip in SNR starting at 7.48 or so is the incubator blasting RF poison into the air. Off again for a bit, recovers, on again, dip, then off again. No noticeable problem with speeds, no CRCs or other effect upon ADSL, just that .3 or .4 dip in SNR.
Hmmmm.
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
23-05-2014 7:10 PM
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Interesting update!
I take it S9 is strength nine, ten being the top of the scale? Seems like that PSU needs to be replaced. Would be good to get it switched off for a short period during the evening when you see the modulation on the night time SNRM plot. PSU devices such as this can get worse as more is asked of them. Evenings being cooler might mean the incubator draws more power thus making the PSU RFI worse.
There is though other factors here, so jeep looking. Let's hope you can remove whatever issues you can before the engineer visit on Wednesday.
Kevin
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
27-05-2014 9:54 AM
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The incubator that causes that is only used rarely, obviously when we need some eggs incubating but I know from past experience that it hammers the HF bands like nowt on earth and I was just curious as to what, if any, effect it might have had upon things. As you can see, it's worth anything up to a .4 drop in SNR.
You would be surprised what devices put out noise on those frequencies., things as innocuous as lighting. Touch lamps are a swine for it, as are energy saving lightbulbs, in particular some of the cheapy LED ones. If you have any in your home, try placing a portable MW radio near one and enjoy the noise.
As for an S9 reading on a radio, all radios are calibrated slightly differently, so relative measurment rather than absolute measurement but mine is regarded as being somewhere in the ballpark when compared to "agreed" standards such as this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_meter
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 9:53 AM
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Cheers ears!
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 10:02 AM
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Sure, here's details of your line:
<img src="http://community.plus.net/visualradius/generated/image14012674802599.png"/>
I've attached a couple of screenshots.
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 10:17 AM
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 10:19 AM
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 10:31 AM
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They are on an ADSL Max exchange with a very long (2+ Miles) rural overhead line. Typically they've always synced at 1.5Mbps for the past 8 years.
Recently they have had major drop outs and spent days on the phone to BT Retail (Why won't they let me move them to PN )
Finally a POTS engineer turned up as a remote copper line test killed off the line (voice) completely.
The broadband and voice came back but the broadband still had a few drop outs.
I decided to investigate the internal wiring. As this is a big country house they have their own 20 pair DP in the cellar with NTE's coming off it via various JB's around the house. (They have about 8 incomming lines)
The ADSL line went through 2 soap boxes before terminating into an NTE 5, then onto multiple extensions.
I disconnected the extensions to the office and plugged the router into the test socket. Still 1.5Mbps.
I knew the line was estimated at about 3Mbps so I ran a new pair from the DP direct to a new master from the toolbox.
Plugged in the router and boom, 7.5Mbps!
So, reconnected the original pair to the DP, put my master in place of the soap box, removed the next NTE and crimped direct to the office extension (They weren't bothered about having this line anywhere else in the house)
Went back after a week and the line was still stable at 7.5Mbps but IP profile still 1.5MBps
So, after 3 hours talking to India I finally got the profile reset, BTW speedtest is regularly reporting speeds of 6Mbps down now
Good luck with your engineer!
Looking forward to the results
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 11:06 AM
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I must admit I'm kind of hoping that they will, at least for this visit, "standardise" the wiring here from the drop to the master socket, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread the internal wiring is decades old and the first "soap bar" is oxidised to death. Also, an NTE5 will allow me to fit a filtered faceplate, which I find to be a bit better than pigtail filters electrically, neater physically and a bit less messing around to isolate the bell wire with.
There's a thing. Must remember to pick up a packet of hobnobs on the way home. Biscuits. The universal grease of the service industry.
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 11:08 AM
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An interesting tale which serves to show just how sensitive ADSL can be to in property wiring.
Was the new NTE 5 of the same generation / style as the old one? Did the old one have the bell wire connected?
The later NTE 5 sockets are I believe somewhat better and a connected bell wire can be quite unhelpful!
Kevin
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Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 11:14 AM
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Quote from: Uncle_Meat I must admit I'm kind of hoping that they will, at least for this visit, "standardise" the wiring here from the drop to the master socket
I hope so for your sake!
I've had engineers that hear a dial tone then CBA and others that are straight up the pole swapping connections over and all sorts!
As a matter of course when a customer has a BB fault I always eliminate everything else and connect the drop wire directly to my test NTE5 with a MK2 dsl faceplate. 90% of the time it cures the problem. Which reminds me, I'm running low on NTE5's. Off to the online tat bazaar to order some more
Re: SNR Reset and long dodgy rural lines
28-05-2014 11:16 AM
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Quote from: Uncle_Meat Also, an NTE5 will allow me to fit a filtered faceplate, which I find to be a bit better than pigtail filters electrically, neater physically and a bit less messing around to isolate the bell wire with.
There's a thing. Must remember to pick up a packet of hobnobs on the way home. Biscuits. The universal grease of the service industry.
Uncle_Meat
If BTOR replace the NTE 5 it will be with a vdsl2 face plate, thus you not need to supply and fit your own. IIRC I thought your router was remote from the NTE 5 - have you relocated the router? If the drop wire needs to be replaced, you might be able to persuade the engineer to relocate the NTE 5 if that would be advantageous. Might depend on if the hob nobs have a chocolate coating - I prefer the dark ones in the red packet!
Kevin
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