Just Joined from Virgin but slow speeds

[#1]

Well, in my desperation to improve my speed, I resorted to the trick with the 7800 of spoofing the SNR.
I reduced it from 15 down to 7dB.
It now appears to have a DS of 1.66Mbps and the IP Profile has gone up from 0.5Mbps to 2Mbps.
Download speed achieved during the test was - 1.66 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.4 Mbps-2 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :2.3 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2 Mbps
This is more or less where I was before I started messing around, so I'll leave it alone and see what happens.

[#2]

The "messing around" had little to do with it really, whatever is creating the interference has give an appallingly bad MTBE and with the ILQ on Red the Target SNRM was bound to go up. I don't know how usable you are finding the connection now that you've lower the SNRM as the errors will undoubtedly have increased again.
On yesterdays 1716 SNRM graph, there were 2 drops there at 1558 and 1606 - the duration of which look very much like line tests. I'd hazard a guess that it was Tony (or maybe Matthew doing line tests). It would have been nice to have had a post on here to confirm if that was the case.
Good thing to suspect the Smart meter as a possible source, how long have you had it?
Do you have another computer you could run RSL on, it would be a good idea to eliminate the computer PSU as a possibility?
Did you try switching off the monitor for say 10 minutes to see if that had any effect?
Don't forget things like Freeview/FreeSat boxes as well as Sky ones, also things like Powerline/Homeplug network devices.
Do you have any dusk to dawn devices (which might even be faulty)?
Are there any street lights very close to you that are stuck on 24/7 that weren't a while back?
Any new electrical installation work happened close-by recently, or any mobile phone masts appeared?
Your over-niight graphs showed the usual increase in variation as a result of the increased MW propagation after dark, but the actual variation of the average was quite small, so you line would seem reasonably well balanced.
Could we see some more SNRM graphs please now that you've reduced the SNRM?

[#3]

Hi all,
Hitting this thread somewhat blind so if you need any line tests running etc just let me know.

[#4]

Chris,
Post #42 is may be the pivotal point.  There is a high rate of error, SNRM is 15dB, user trying to get the best out of things with different routers might be clouding the picture a little, albeit very understandable activity.
User plots might suggest REIN, but the situation might benefit a review by someone with nasty problem experience... 
Kevin

[#5]

Hi Anotherone
I'll take your questions in order
The connection seems pretty stable.  I can now watch BBC iplayer in real time (and almost in HD - but some buffering).  I can watch youtube videos in HD. I couldn't do any of these things before with Plusnet, whereas I could with Virgin.
On graph 1716, the drops were because I moved the router - as I mentioned in the post..  However, I'm not sure when the IP Profile went from 0.5Mbps to 2Mbps.
Good thing to suspect the Smart meter as a possible source, how long have you had it?  It was installed last October, but it had no effect on my internet performance - I did check at the time.
Do you have another computer you could run RSL on, it would be a good idea to eliminate the computer PSU as a possibility?  I have a laptop, running XP, so as long as I can get RSL to run on it, I'll give it a go over the weekend.

Did you try switching off the monitor for say 10 minutes to see if that had any effect?  Yes, that was the first thing I tried (as you initially suggested)
Don't forget things like Freeview/FreeSat boxes as well as Sky ones, also things like Powerline/Homeplug network devices.  I do use Homeplugs (3) to distribute the ethernet around the house.  I'll try unplugging all of them
Do you have any dusk to dawn devices (which might even be faulty)?  I do have security lights.  I'll try isolating them
Are there any street lights very close to you that are stuck on 24/7 that weren't a while back?  We are in the middle of the countryside, so no street lights.
Any new electrical installation work happened close-by recently, or any mobile phone masts appeared?  No new electrical work to my knowledge and certainly no mobile phone masts!

I'll plot some more graphs over the weekend.
I suppose that the thing is. that now I've got back to where I was with Virgin, I may have had the interference for sometime and it's purely coincidental that it manifested itself during the changeover to Plusnet.
I know my neighbour (who is on BT) gets about 1.8Mbps, which is about right for our 6km line length.
And thanks Chris for the offer.  Perhaps we'll see once I've tried all of the things suggested by Anotherone

[#6]

I suspect the high error rate issue may have been present for a long time, but you were unaware of it with the 7300G because maybe it behaves in the same way as manually setting a lower target SNRM, and/or perhaps it did not report accurate error and error seconds counts back to the exchange.
Powerline networking can be a source of interference, and on such a long line, the strength of the ADSL signal that reaches you will be very low. So even minor levels of interference, that might be negligible relative to the ADSL signal received on a shorter line, could be more problematic for a very long line.

[#7]

Hi ejs
I think that you a probably correct and that REIN is the problem.
I have now disconnected nearly everything that I can find (including Homeplugs, DVRs, security lights and my PC) and I am running RSL on my laptop
I still get the same plot.
We have an 11kV overhead power line that feeds the village, running over the top of our house.  I know that this induces into our house wiring, as when I fitted LED lights in the kitchen they wouldn't switch off!  It took a 10k resistor across the back of the fitting to cure that.
The trouble is, I can't really ask SSE to switch it off to see if it is that!!
We are promised FTTC sometime next year as part of the Hampshire rural broadband project, so I assume that the strength of my ADSL signal will increase considerably, as the cabinet is only about 1km away.
Perhaps I'll just have to wait until then

[#8]

This sort of interference will do an FTTC connection no good whatsoever I'm afraid, especially over that distance. If the Cab were a 100m away, then that might be different. Any more graphs?
I'll post some more shortly.

[#9]

That's bad news.
If the interference is from the overhead, do the DNO have any obligation to ensure that it doesn't interfere with BB.  I suspect not!
I forgot to switch on 'capture' on the laptop, so no graphs saved yet.  It's now on, so as soon as it generates some I'll post them.

[#10]

Thanks for your thoughts ejs, I'm not sure about the behaviour of the 7300G, do you have some more detailed knowledge on it?
I did wonder about the possibility of the REIN being present previously but unnoticed. The accurate/inaccurate reporting of ES counts is an interesting idea because 20CN isn't often slow to react and although there are a couple of (unpublished) tricks that can be played, I doubt that Virgin/TalkTalk would be able to get BTw to do them as a matter of course on their users connections.
It's interesting that with the lower SNRM and hence higher speed, the connection is able to stream reasonably despite the MTBE!

Quote from: MrG

Do you have another computer you could run RSL on, it would be a good idea to eliminate the computer PSU as a possibility?  I have a laptop, running XP, so as long as I can get RSL to run on it, I'll give it a go over the weekend.

It will run on XP fine, you should have no problem with that.

Quote from: MrG

Did you try switching off the monitor for say 10 minutes to see if that had any effect?  Yes, that was the first thing I tried (as you initially suggested)

Was there any glitches or changes whatsoever on the SNRM graph when you did this? Sometimes such things may give a hint about a problem. It's always best to post the graphs.

Quote from: MrG

I suppose that the thing is. that now I've got back to where I was with Virgin, I may have had the interference for sometime and it's purely coincidental that it manifested itself during the changeover to Plusnet.

I did post earlier in the thread about needing some stability. Randomly disconnecting, rebooting, swapping modem/routers etc will not be helping. These things need to be done gracefully (as i remarked in passing), and then only when really needed.
By Gracefully, that means logging into the modem/router, finding the PPP Internet Interface and clicking Disconnect. Then wait about a minute before powering of the modem/router. Never just unplug it from the line without powering off first. Generally on ADSL, wait at least 10 minutes before powering up again (after swapping anything about if that was needed) even if all you want is a resync.
Posting graphs of these things is, as already mentioned, always a good idea, as you never know what clues they may yield.

Quote from: MrG

On graph 1716, the drops were because I moved the router - as I mentioned in the post..  However, I'm not sure when the IP Profile went from 0.5Mbps to 2Mbps.

The profile change would have resulted from you reducing the SNRM and the resultant speed increase, probably a few hours after as it was a large profile rise. That was after the modem/router moves.
Now I did make an assumption about that graph because of the timings, clearly not a correct assumption   However I did make a mental note of that graph shape is a touch unusual, not what I'd quite expect and planned to keep my eye open for this with any future drops in sync or resyncs.
However, as a result of your comment and my mental note, it's triggered the thought that whilst we have been concentrating on this "just moved from Virgin/TT ADSL on 20CN, noting that the problem may have been present previously, but for whatever reason, gone unnoticed - remembering that the Target SNRM was 9db earlier in the thread before it went to 15, none of the basic fundamental questions have been asked. So here they come 
Do you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left and where is it located?
Do you have any hard wired extension phone sockets, and what is normally plugged in where?
Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?
Are you using any plug in extension phone leads between any socket and a filter, or the filter and the modem/router?
Apart from the change in modem/router have you made any other changes to your installation, either a while before changing ISP or at that time?
When you have changed modem/router, have you always used the PSU that came with that modem/router?
Do you have any spare filters?
That'll probably do for starters 

Quote from: Townman

Post #42 is may be the pivotal point.  There is a high rate of error, SNRM is 15dB, user trying to get the best out of things with different routers might be clouding the picture a little, albeit very understandable activity. User plots might suggest REIN, but the situation might benefit a review by someone with nasty problem experience...

I sometimes wonder if my posts are invisible
Post #31 was actually a pivotal point on which I commented in replies #32 & #33, #42 was merely confirmation.
There is nothing at the time of making this post to suggest that it's not REIN, from a source as yet unknown

[#11]

I'd noted the Billion 7300G is TrendChip based, from the firmware version info in reply #10. That's the same brand of chipset as some Asus DSL models, which have had some unusual issues. Occasionally they've had an improbably high speed (or doubtful attenuation figure). But in particular, there was the issue where they failed to establish a connection on ADSL2+ with a 3db target DS SNRM, with a workaround of setting them to ADSL1, and then they manage to connect, and with a 6db margin. ADSL1 on 21CN should support a 3db target DS SNRM.
The thing about the MTBE is that is based on the error seconds count. So 1 CRC error each second would have the same MTBE as 30 CRC errors each second. One, or a few, CRC errors each second would remain fairly usable, 30+ not so much. A low but constant CRC error rate still turns the DLM red, from the high number of error seconds, giving a very low mean time between errors (MTBE). A situation with a low but constantly increasing CRC error count would be fairly unusual, because if the interference was constant, and present at the time the modem connects, it would more likely result in the modem establishing a lower speed, rather than connect at a higher speed and constantly count errors.

[#12]

Thanks for the info on the TrendChip devices, I recall something about an ASUS failing to connect as you described. Noting this is 20CN, the conclusion might be that the 7300G might be buggy, but that happened to work in the user's favour, especially when taking your comment about the CRC error rate into account. TBH, I hadn't considered that with only 1 CRC per second the connection would still be reasonably usable.

[#13]

Firstly, I am very impressed that so many people are trying to help with this
The answers to Anotherone's questions:
Do you have a Master Socket similar to the one on the left and where is it located?  Yes, I have the standard BT NTE5 socket located above my front door, where the BT drop wire comes into the house
Do you have any hard wired extension phone sockets, and what is normally plugged in where?  Yes, I have one extension cable that runs from the IDC terminals on the NTE5 faceplate through to my office.  This cabling is in BT standard CW1380 and is about 4m in length.  It terminates in a standard phone jack into which is plugged an ADSL filter (actually the one supplied by Plusnet).  The router then plugs into this.  In addition a filter is plugged into the front of the NTE5 and this then distributes the phone cabling throughout the house (extensions in kitchen. living room and one bedroom upstairs)
Do all your Microfilters look similar to this?  Yes and there are only two of them as described above.
Are you using any plug in extension phone leads between any socket and a filter, or the filter and the modem/router? No, as described above
Apart from the change in modem/router have you made any other changes to your installation, either a while before changing ISP or at that time?  No
When you have changed modem/router, have you always used the PSU that came with that modem/router?  Yes
Do you have any spare filters?  Yes I do, but both the filters that I am currently using are new.
I hope the answers help
I now have some graphs, which are attached

[#14]

I should have mentioned that the graphs are from RSL running on the laptop.
I note that they still exhibit the 96 second peaks.  Could this be a clue to what is causing the interference?

[#15]

It eliminates your PC - assuming it's turned off?
Thanks for the answers to the questions, that should make life a fraction easier. I'm glad you know your CW1308 cable - typo ignored
Is the bell-wire - Orange+white trace connected to terminal 3 on the rear of the NTE5 faceplate?
If you need to remove it to check, don't forget to do a graceful disconnect and if powering off the 7800N upsets the Target SNRM setting, don't forget to redo it.
I assume that the "standard phone jack" where you have the modem/router is a proper secondary one that has neither the capacitor or resistor fitted?
Edit: And if the bell-wire is connected, disconnect it. If there is a capacitor and/or resistor in the "standard phone jack" snip them off.