Had problems since before Xmas with Broadband connected but random no internet. Anyone help plea

[#1]

I agree with your comment John.

I have the engineer's contact number, so will inform him. However I think he needs further authorisation to proceed anmy further. Will see what he says.

Looks like it's in need of rescue!

14 March 1818, it had crashed again

6 - Uptime:	0 days 08:33:11
7 - Data rate:	828/8791
8 - Maximum data rate:	1468/6828
9 - Noise margin:	7.1/0.2
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	243.9M/1.7G

After reset, 1821

6 - Uptime:	0 days 00:02:10
7 - Data rate:	828/8434
8 - Maximum data rate:	1456/9052
9 - Noise margin:	6.4/5.9
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	980.8K/12.4M

[#2]

Yup, certainly needs further investigation - exact same symptoms that lead to the discovery of the dodgy frame in my case.

[#3]

More sets of figures showing checks on router on 14 March and 3 drops. @Gandalf 

14 March @ 0757

6 - Uptime:	1 days 11:18:51
7 - Data rate:	828/8068
8 - Maximum data rate:	1488/9336
9 - Noise margin:	7.3/7.3
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	146.3M/1.6G

14 March 1153 #1 drop 2 hours earlier

6 - Uptime:	0 days 02:08:40
7 - Data rate:	828/8791
8 - Maximum data rate:	1468/9376
9 - Noise margin:	7.1/5.8
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	22.7M/257.5M

1757

6 - Uptime:	0 days 08:13:23
7 - Data rate:	828/8791
8 - Maximum data rate:	1468/9116
9 - Noise margin:	7.1/5.3
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	241.4M/1.6G

14 March 1922  after drop #2

6 - Uptime:	0 days 01:02:46
7 - Data rate:	828/8434
8 - Maximum data rate:	1456/8608
9 - Noise margin:	6.3/4.9
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	7.5M/71.4M

14 March 2100 reduced still

6 - Uptime:	0 days 02:41:05
7 - Data rate:	828/8434
8 - Maximum data rate:	1456/8780
9 - Noise margin:	6.4/5.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	25.9M/144.5M

2207 Internet dropped #3

6 - Uptime:	-
7 - Data rate:	828/8434
8 - Maximum data rate:	1456/6520
9 - Noise margin:	6.6/0.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	6.6K/5.5K

2209 I reset manually

6 - Uptime:	0 days 00:00:26
7 - Data rate:	828/8035
8 - Maximum data rate:	1468/8792
9 - Noise margin:	7.2/6.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	93.2K/296.5K

[#4]

 @Gandalf @jab1

I contacted the OR engineer who called last week and he has arranged for someone to visit on 17 March, 0800 - 1300.

Looks like they have pinned the margin even higher now, dropped speed even further.

16 March, @ 1020after phoning BTOR engineer,

he says he tested around 0900 hence drop

6 - Uptime:	0 days 01:20:40
7 - Data rate:	828/7520
8 - Maximum data rate:	1464/8060
9 - Noise margin:	6.6/8.8
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	9.9M/48.4M

[#5]

Did he say whether it would be an SFI, Robin - it really needs to be?

The increased SNR is probably to try and avoid too many drops until the next engineer arrives.

[#6]

The first visit, last Thursday, he pinned it to 6dB. It worked until Friday night, when it dropped out once It was ok all Saturday, then dropped 3 times in 13 hours on Sunday.

I messaged him yesterday, 15th, he was on leave, but got back 0800 today, saying would raise with his team leader. I then had a call this morning, saying someone will visit tomorrow am, 17th.

The first visit, he said he did not have the authority for lift and shift. He wasn't aware of the longer frame job you mentioned.

I will ask him tomorrow and let you know.

Thanks for your help,

Robin

[#7]

Hi Robin,

I'm sorry to see you're still having issues (and sorry for the delay). Let us know how it goes once the engineer's been out again tomorrow. I'm out of the office tomorrow though as a heads up for the remainder of the week, however I'm happy to follow up on the 22nd March if you're still having issues but fingers crossed your broadband will be sorted by then.

[#8]

@Gandalf  @jab1 

Just come off phone call from OR local team leader. Engineer is still booked for 17 March am.

He asked why I wasn't on vdsl as my adsl was on old cable and vdsl was a lot more reliable and far less prone to all my current problems.

I politely explained that we weren't interested in higher speed as our regular 9.5 to 10Mbps was perfectly adequate and besides, why should I have to pay a higher premium that in my opinion was just to save repairing the current fault problem?!!

He also mentioned switching interleaving off might be best, but would also reduce speed. He also commented that speed would vary throughout the day anyway, depending on various factors.

I think he realised I didn't want to change. He said it was purely out of interest as most customers were now moving to vdsl.

We still parted friends though.

He wasn't aware of any changes done today, but it seems I am now pinned on 9dB, though I wasn't yesterday. He said to give it 10 days to settle down and if need be contact PN and ask them to arrange lift and shift. When I read out Gandalf's post about TPM as a last resort, he seemed to think that it was just a lift and shift. So, I am now a little confused.

16 March 1641 After OR call finished, I checked again

6 - Uptime:	0 days 00:17:34
7 - Data rate:	828/7467
8 - Maximum data rate:	1512/7952
9 - Noise margin:	8.3/8.8
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	1.2M/5.0M

With overall achieved DL speed reduced by nearly 25%, It will be interesting to see if it affects reliability or, more importantly my wife not being able to watch some tv without interruptions!!

[#9]

Robin, leaving aside his 'sales patter' that team leader sounds as though he needs quite a bit of retraining, some of his comments are, to put it mildly, bizarre.

I agree, if you are satisfied with your speed, then it doesn't make sense to spend more for something you don't need or want.

If you switch interleaving off, it would actually raise your speed, but introduce more error, leaving you probably worse off in the 'reliability' stakes. Speed should be nearly constant - my hourly checks vary by, occasionally, a couple of Mb/s points from around 0700 to 2300 so that's another fallacy.

It may be that DLM has moved you to a 9dB profile as it is perceiving problems - he wouldn't be aware of that.

TPM vs L&S - TPM is moving you to a different frame at the exchange, L&S is moving to a different port on the same frame - as I understand it, anyway.

 Just hope tomorrows engineer has a few more brain cells.

[#10]

As that is the case with interleaving, sorry, I cannot be correct in what I wrote just now, it was from my memory of the conversation. A lot was said. It must have been the opposite in that case. Telephone conversations I find are not as memorable as face to face I find. I don't think it was sales pitch at all, he genuinely was surprised that I appeared happy with what he considered an "inferior" service.

Will be in touch tomorrow.

Thanks, Robin

[#11]

Cheers for the update Robin,

A lift and shift would you move your line onto a different port with minimal downtime, but a TPM would move you to completely different equipment at the exchange, taking your connection offline for 3 working days.

We can ask BT to raise a lift and shift task for an Openreach engineer to carry out at the exchange, but from experience they'll generally only complete it if they find a problem with the port you're on, which raises the question I'm thinking of is why we'd need to specifically request a lift and shift though.

TPM's are a tad different as these do have to be requested as BT's complex faults team would place it as an order. Something that BT generally wouldn't do unless a lift and shift is first tried. 

I'm happy to arrange the lift and shift (or TPM if we're at that stage) next week if needed.

Also I did wonder a little myself why you aren't on fibre but I figured that it may be down to that when your standard broadband service performs well, it's good enough for what you'd want to do on the internet.  It may be worth calling our customer options team on 0800 013 2632 as we do generally have some pretty tempting offers for fibre broadband that might be as cheap or almost as. Depending where the fault lies though it may carry across.

Let us know how it goes over the next few days and what the engineer tomorrow morning finds out. 

[#12]

@Gandalf  @JAB Thanks both!

Will see what happens the next few days as to whether a lift and shift might be the way forward.

Robin

[#13]

Not doubting you, @Gandalf , but when I had my TPM (early last year?) I was only without connection for about 5 hours?

Edit: maybe they just replaced the whole frame I was on - the SFI overseeing it stated that it needed 'replacing'.

[#14]

@joseph1 Sounds like a plan!

@jab1 From what I can see we've not raised a fault report to our suppliers on your line in around two years. I suspect the work you've mentioned an engineer carried out at the exchange might not have been a TPM as such.

[#15]

@Gandalf  @jab1 

Final disconnect test just made and now line reconnected. Now transferred to a new pair from manhole outside my house into exchange and then onto different terminating equipment. Must have spent nearly 6 hours working. Freezing cold and rain at times. Dedicated to sorting this out. Head in manhole, climbing pole, checking cabinets all along the route to exchange and keeping me informed throughout.

Time of this log now was 1700

6 - Uptime:	0 days 00:01:41
7 - Data rate:	756/8193
8 - Maximum data rate:	1176/8864
9 - Noise margin:	8.9/9.0
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/39.5
12 - Data sent/received:	539.3K/6.0M

He told me that their monitor or test logs had  showed a lot of interference on the circuit roughly between 1000 and 2359, daily. He thinks this was REIN. He doesn't know if SHINE took place as unfortunately swapping my circuit deleted the information.

He said, monitor things and let him know direct if more problems. A really thorough engineer.

I resurrected my old Technicolor TG582N router, routerstats lite showed as being compatible. I could not get stats to run, just flat lining. I did enable telnet in control panel. Gave up and back on my 2704N again.