Had problems since before Xmas with Broadband connected but random no internet. Anyone help plea

[#1]

Looking back on past 23 months of occasional snapshots of log, I used to get around 6 or 7db prior to 8 Sept 2020. Since then, it has only shown 3 or 4 of between 4 and 4.5dB. Since then, around 5 or 6 have been above, ie between 4 - 4.5dB, but dozens between 2.5 - 3.9dB. September is when I started getting a lot more dropouts, which makes sense with my records. BT scheduled for this afternoon.

Guess what, here are 2 logs this morning:

11 March 0818

6 - Uptime:	0 days 12:28:06
7 - Data rate:	910/9390
8 - Maximum data rate:	1296/10596
9 - Noise margin:	5.4/4.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.8/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	45.5M/1.2G

 and just now,

11 March 0918

6 - Uptime:	0 days 13:28:32
7 - Data rate:	910/9390
8 - Maximum data rate:	1296/10948
9 - Noise margin:	6.1/4.8
10 - Line attenuation:	21.8/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	47.4M/1.2G

On the rise. I wonder if PN have tinkered with pinning it again?

But no disconnects are showing.

My only concern is if BT say nff because of this and I am charged. However, I have had 2 occasions in last 30 days with 3 drops within 72 hours and of course yesterday 2 in 24 hours which is evidence as far as PN are concerned that a fault exists. I think....

Thanks, Robin

[#2]

Hi Robin, Having a read through your thread I think an engineer visit is definitely the right call. If the problem's at the exchange, the engineer should be able to fix that by doing a 'lift and shift' which will move your line onto a different port.

Also we can see your broadband's dropping frequently so don't worry about being charged if the engineer doesn't find a fault, we're more likely to arrange another engineer if that's the case and the drops keep happening. Feel free to drop me a PM though if you are charged should the engineer find no fault and I'll be happy to waive it. 

Let us know how the visit goes today. 

[#3]

Just seen this, more like usual

11 March @ 1030, unknown drop and self reset 13mins ago

6 - Uptime:	0 days 00:13:49
7 - Data rate:	966/10219
8 - Maximum data rate:	1372/11024
9 - Noise margin:	4.8/3.0
10 - Line attenuation:	21.8/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	978.7K/746.9K

[#4]

@Gandalf, Thanks, appreciate you looking at it, my Next post just now referring to a drop about 15 minutes ago may have been you testing.

Robin

[#5]

If it was @Gandalf testing, Robin, you certainly need at least a 'lift and shift' - preferably to a different frame, because a single interruption shouldn't have caused that massive change.

Whether the engineer today would do the L&S I don't know - depends whether he is a  jobsworth type.

[#6]

Thanks for getting back to me Robin,

I actually hadn't tested your line, just looked at the radius logs to show the drops so it looks like the drop you had just now may had been by itself. Fingers crossed (in an odd way) that your broadband keeps on dropping this afternoon as it'll help the engineer identify and locate the problem.

[#7]

@jab1 if an engineer carries out a lift and shift it'll be on the same equipment at the exchange but a different port. To move a service onto different equipment entirely, we'd have to ask BT to order a TPM (tie pair modification) which takes 3 working days and causes total loss of service in the meantime. Something we'd do as a last resort normally.

[#8]

@Gandalf Yep - I know - that's what they had to do to resolve my problem. Poor SFI that sorted it for me was on the job for about five hours till he located the problem of a failing/failed frame, but @joseph1 's situation is a mirror of mine, which is why I made the comment I did in message #7.

Apologies for my badly worded previous reply.

[#9]

Ah fair enough. No problem, hopefully the engineer this afternoon can get to the bottom of the drops.

[#10]

Just done my previous checks again, to be certain not here and it isn't.

Not disturbed the BB connection (It is a NTE 5C BTW) quiet line test on old phone, a slight hiss pressed to my ear, inaudible 1" away. this time however, occasionally a short 1, 2 or 3 blips in succession are heard. Maybe 3 sets in 5 seconds, or nothing for 30 seconds. Each is just a few 10s milliseconds I imagine. A bit like a data burst  tone sound to me. Not sine wave. Sometimes the frequency is slightly different then reverts to original.

I shut my pc desk down completely, apart from router which is on the other 13A outlet of the twin wall socket. Quiet test repeated and still the same occasional tones. This is only just audible with earpiece about 2" from my ear. My ears aren't calibrated in db (Yet!!) so not sure how many db above residual line white noise which is not heard at 1" away.

As a repair engineer on radio communications before I retired, I believe too much background information is far better than too little. Believe me, some customer's engineers were pretty useless considering the responsible job they did, often returning equipment with a red fault tag written with just  "Faulty" or "U/S". Pretty obvious if it is returned for repair, but no idea if an intermittent fault I was looking for or anything else for that matter. 

I hope you don't think I am going on about my BB fault with all these posts,  but I assure you I am not whingeing! I am very grateful for all the help.

Thanks, Robin

[#11]

Robin, I for one, don't think you're going on - as you say the more information the better - I just wish sometimes that other people with problems would provide as much detail as it makes narrowing down the issue so much easier.

As said before, an L&S may solve this - make sure to ask the engineer what he has been advised, and ask if he is prepared to do one.

Hopefully, that will solve the issue, but if not, a TPM is the only other option.

[#12]

No problem Robin, the more detail the better!

It looks like an engineer's been assigned the job and they should be contacting you shortly (if they haven't already)

[#13]

BTOR left maybe 45 minutes ago to check a cabinet halfway to exchange. He has had noise margin pinned to 6db and says it now shows just a few errors rather than the large amount he saw on arrival. He also removed the NTE and checked termination behind it. He has phoned to say he has reterminated our line in the cabinet half way between here and exchange, says was covered in verdegris. A nice, thorough and friendly chap.

Says to contact him (card left) if snr drops or dropouts and he will get his team leader involved. I mentioned the L&S, he says he doesnt have that authority, but just see how things go. This I am happy with. Thanks both!

11 March 1432 shortly after BTOR left here

- Uptime:	0 days 00:10:27
7 - Data rate:	828/8672
8 - Maximum data rate:	1460/9500
9 - Noise margin:	6.7/6.3
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	564.4K/1.4M

1457 he phoned after completing cabinet retermination

- Uptime:	0 days 00:03:13
7 - Data rate:	828/8694
8 - Maximum data rate:	1496/9420
9 - Noise margin:	7.6/6.1
10 - Line attenuation:	21.7/40.0
12 - Data sent/received:	1.1M/3.4M

[#14]

Looking much better, Robin. Maybe it was that cabinet clean that sorted it, which is quite possible - badly terminated/dirty cabling can have detrimental effects.

Didn't think a normal engineer would have L&S authority, to be honest.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[#15]

Thanks for getting back to us Robin,

Ah nice. Fingers crossed the engineer's efforts have sorted your broadband out for good.

If you'd want to pass on your thanks to him, I'd recommend filling out the formwize Here on Openreach's site.

(I've not yet figured out what authority engineers are expecting when wanting to carry out a lift and shift. I suspect they'd either have to involve their manager or contact BT's helpdesk, because for ADSL the tie pairs/exchange equipment belong to BT Wholesale rather than Openreach)

Keep us posted on how things go and let me know if there are any further issues.