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Vista, XP, and new computers

kesimmonds
Dabbler
Posts: 19
Registered: 06-04-2007

Vista, XP, and new computers

I'm not too clued up about the abilities of the latest computers, so bear that in mind for the following.
I've heard plenty of bad things about Vista, apart from the cost. I've run XP for the past 3 - 4 years and am very happy with it. It works with all my peripherals and software, and is very stable.
The time has come to replace my aging PC, but talking to a friend has brought up some potential problems.
First, he tells me that it's almost impossible to buy a new, unopened version of XP, and that new, up to date PC's are being sold with Vista already installed. Also, he says that you can't uninstall Vista, and install XP, even if you can obtain a legal copy, because modern dual core processors must have Vista to run properly.
Is all this correct? Other going the Linux or Mac route, can a new, modern PC *only* run on Vista, or am I being told a load of do-do's?
I'd be interested in peoples views and advice on this. Huh
14 REPLIES
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Have a look at this site under the Custom Built Computers link on the left.  They'll buid you a PC to your spec with either Vista, Xp, Xp Media Centre Edition or, should you wish, no OS at all.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,310
Thanks: 972
Fixes: 57
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

A load of old dosh.
The one thing which is difficult is if you install VISTA over XP it nullifies the XP license but in fact there are ways of getting round that.
Unless your old computer had an OEM version (normal if you bought it preinstalled) you can transfer the licence to the new PC provided that you uninstall it from the old PC before validating it on the new one.
If you want to purchase XP (update, OEM or full) they are readily available - this is only one site and probably not the cheapest 
timtim
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: 27-08-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Well your freind is correct on a few points, but also wrong on some others.
Vista is regarded as not ready for the masses b y a lot of large IT houses [other than Microsoft ofcourse Smiley ].
XP will soon not be on sale but at the moment it is for sale any where you choose to buy it from, I belive the cut off date is 2008 , but this is unoffical and you will still be able to buy a OEM version of the software. OEM is a type of opperating system that is specifically for system builders, you don't get the same support of a manual. Also to get this OEM version you need to buy some hardware with it because it is for those who are building a system, but as you will be buying a Computer you may be able to purchase a OEM version of XP. OEM is usually cheaper that a retail box.
Or this link at ARIA (who I use for all my new PC's) :
http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Software/Operating+Systems/
Aria may be the better option as they can sell you the PC at a good price as well.
ALL DUAL CORE PROCESSORS WORK ON ALL MICROSOFT PRODUCTS! sorry about shouting just so many people have said this recently, Vista has a 64bit version which takes advantage of the 64bit dual core "Duo" chips but the 64bit version is riddled with more bugs than the normal 32bit flavor. But running 32bit version of XP will be perfectly fine on any of the Intel chips on the market at the moment.
I hope this helps.
Tim
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,310
Thanks: 972
Fixes: 57
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Quote from: timtim
Vista is regarded as not ready for the masses b y a lot of large IT houses [other than Microsoft of course
I would agree with that statement but it depends on how long you intend to keep your computer and whether your peripherals (scanner, printer, mobile phone, etc.) will work with Vista. For a single user and with support for all the bits you want to use it with it isn't too bad. The one thing which really seems to be causing problems is mixing XP and Vista on a network (either home through a router or business through a server).
I am in the same boat as you - trying to decide what to use on my next PC build - but in my case as I can transfer my XP license it is a question of whether to go Vista now or later (definitely not OEM version as that can never be moved between computers legally). The one thing I was looking at was DX10 support but the more a read about that the less like it.
Just to add - the one thing which almost certainly won't work with Vista is a USB modem as the suppliers are not providing Vista driver support.
timtim
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: 27-08-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Hi Oldjim,
I agree that advent of Direct X 10 is very appealing, so much I may get vista on the gaming rig soon.
look at these snapshots
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/winvista_games_10.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/winvista_games_09.jpg
i found them on this page : http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_games.asp

I think yes there are some issues with the confilict of Vista and XP, also any other OS Apple for example and Linux. We are getting better and have over come a lot of these but the 16bit apps that you may use will not work at all, as I have some old software this may be what has tainted me.
But I think I am coming on a little too strong I do intend to get Vista, but I was going to wait for the service pack. But of course this answers you question do we switch now or later, I say later.
Oldjim you are also quite correct in that in transfering the opperating system from one PC to another under a OEM version is quite illegal, and if anyone was planning to do this then a RETAIL version is required.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,310
Thanks: 972
Fixes: 57
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

I looked at this comparison with Bioshock and they didn't find many difference but this one is very clear http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/bioshock_directx10_performance/page4.asp
The first picture is DX9
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Yep, the requirement to purchase hardware was removed but you now have to provide "end user support" - but if you're the end user where's the problem? Cheesy
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,310
Thanks: 972
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

The problem with an OEM version is that the hardware changes permitted are much smaller so rebuilding a computer can mean a new purchase. I don't know how restrictive Vista is but with XP a new (different motherboard) was not allowed as that is considered a new computer.
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

I suppose it boils down to how much you're going to play about with your system. 
If you're pretty sure that you're not going to do anything major then an OEM version is probably OK (or if you don't plan to move Windows to another PC).  I know people who've installed OEM versions of Xp and have quite happily upgraded most of their systems (bar the mobo)without Xp complaining.  Worst case was a phone call to M$ after a hard drive repalcement but they handed out a new activation key over the phone.
However, if you plan to upgrade to a new machine soon, or like upgrading frequently, then a retail version is probably better, although the VISTA EULA is somewhat more restrictive than the Xp licence was - it only allows you to move your copy once.  From the VISTA EULA:
"The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the "licensed device.""
Aslo have a look at this article in The Register.

Edit: typos
kesimmonds
Dabbler
Posts: 19
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

OK all, thanks very much for your encouraging replies Smiley
I shall stick to XP, but will have to buy a new copy as my existing one is OEM.
Nice to know that all dual core processors work with all shades of M$oft OS, also thanks very much for the heads-up about the restriction on moving Vista retail version only once.
Your opinions are much appreciated, thanks again.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,310
Thanks: 972
Fixes: 57
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

that statement about moving only once is no longer correct - Microsoft listened to the screams from the customers
http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/02/microsoft-changes-vista-eula-to-appease-modders-pirates-still-s/
kesimmonds
Dabbler
Posts: 19
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

That's nice to know too, Oldjim, but I'm still going to stay with XP  Cheesy
paulby
Grafter
Posts: 1,619
Registered: 26-07-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

Didn't realise they'd changed things - that makes things a lot better and it now makes a lot more sense to buy a retail version if you plan to upgrade your motherboard or change your PC.
Does the same apply to the retail upgrade?
It requires you to install over a registered version of Xp or 2K (unless you follow the workaround here).
octafish
Grafter
Posts: 124
Registered: 24-05-2007

Re: Vista, XP, and new computers

I've run many, many OSes.  XP was very good although it suffered from all kind of misinformed comment in its first year.
Briefly: Get Vista (Home Premium or Ultimate) if you're buying a new machine.  I bought a new PC in March and really value Vista's improved functions and interface.
If you were to have wanted to upgrade it would not be likely to be a good experience; remember Vista is a major code overhaul and it's replacing an OS which came out 6 years previously.
There have been a number of driver issues but these have for the most part been resolved.  Why some manufacturers weren't Vista-ready at the start of the year beggars belief; the code was available to them for a long, long time.
Try and get a machine from a retailer who doesn't load the machine up with useless junk or unwanted software, that junk can cause performance issues in any new PC.
Just my four penneth.