cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 257
Fixes: 20
Registered: 16-02-2009

Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Sounds a bit vague to me <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/26/virgin_media_detica/">clicky</a>
Quote from it:-
The system will look at traffic and identify the peer-to-peer packets. In a step beyond how ISPs currently monitor their networks, it will then peer inside those packets and try to determine what is licensed and what is unlicensed, based on data provided by the record industry.
So the Record Industry now tells us what we can/nt download ? How does a bit sample from an album vary from a bit sample from (say) an Ubuntu live cd download if all it sees is a snippet?
Full 2 way 128bit encryption is what is required!
If they were to get off there fat (((('s and implement a decent content transfer system, so that I can listen in my car via audio cd/mp3 cd/digital card/ipod/cassette or on my pc, or mp3 player or (heavens forbid) my hifi system and not need to BUY 6 different copies than I might be interested in actually purchasing an album, although these days I don't buy albums I just listen to the radio  Cheesy (I can't afford to pay £10 for 30 min of music that I will probably enjoy 6 off any way). Instead of trying to "catch" people downloading the music that they probably won't listen to anyway!
14 REPLIES
Midnight_Caller
Rising Star
Posts: 4,143
Thanks: 7
Fixes: 1
Registered: 15-04-2007

Virgin Media & Detica

Hi All
[quote="Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system"]
Virgin Media will trial deep packet inspection technology to measure the level of illegal filesharing on its network, but plans not to tell the customers whose traffic will be examined.
The system, CView, will be provided by Detica, a BAE subsidiary that specialises in large volume data collection and processing, and whose traditional customers are the intelligence agencies and law enforcement.
The trial will cover about 40 per cent of Virgin Media's network, a spokesman said, but those involved will not be informed. "It would be counter-productive because it doesn't affect customers directly," he said.

[My Bold]  NTL / Virgin Media have no bisnis monitoring 40% of it's network with Detica!
This Sh** must be Stopped!
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

How to avoid the scanning in uTorrent.
Virgin's whole system null and void with four mouseclicks.  Well done.
B.
custos
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 315
Thanks: 47
Fixes: 1
Registered: 28-06-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

I simply can't understand how it is possible to prove that an individual is guilty of an illegal act simply by monitoring the activity to and from a specific IP address. Even if it could be proved beyond doubt that illegal file sharing was taking place, and personally I doubt even that is possible, how would you prove who was doing it?
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 257
Fixes: 20
Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

It the usual headless chicken response, we have this technology available and here is how we could use it. BUT the charge has to be laid at some one, and if you share your connection (e.g. an Internet cafe, or someone with a BT Wireless router (Fone network) !, or visiting relatives/friends)  or have an open wireless connection then they will try and charge YOU even if they cant find the data that they say you illegally downloaded (if you actually did and it didn't just pass though your network)
It is Phrom in a different (p)form we want to sue some one and if you make it easy for us we will sue you! (See <a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1563757/law-firm-goes-filesharers">here</a> where they reckon it is BT's network that was/is used)
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,296
Thanks: 30
Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

The thing is, things like this will only speed up peoples desire to encrypt their traffic, before long encryption will become common place, everything from emails, web traffic to P2P and Usenet will be encrypted *by default*, so Virgin will be peering into P2P traffic they cannot read, and law enforcement agencies will be up in arms about not being able to do anything useful with internet traffic any-more, so we may end up with the Gov (especially if its Labour) making encryption illegal (I wouldn't put it past Mandy to do that!)
People who use P2P will already hit the "encrypt" switch, as well as the "only accept connections if they are encrypted" switch, along with IP filters and whatnot, the only people who would not encrypt their connection would be "casual" users who want to download 1 song every 3 months, or watch an episode of some American drama before its released over here.  The hardcore users will be untouched, people using P2P for legitimate means (Linux distros come to mind) will find their traffic is being "inspected" (which lets face it, is a bit like saying - we think you're committing an offence, so we're going to check your traffic).
Still, makes me glad I'm not in a cable area  Grin
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 257
Fixes: 20
Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Quote from: dgwebb
Still, makes me glad I'm not in a cable area  Grin

Check that last link in my post. That was ADSL.
As to "casual" users well they are more likely to be the ones who will be caught
neil3045
Grafter
Posts: 75
Registered: 22-11-2009

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Thank god my switch to PN go ahead this week! Virgin media have no right to invade our downloads, considering throughout the whole 2 years I was with them they never allowed enough bandwith to do so!  Crazy
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,296
Thanks: 30
Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Quote from: biker955
Check that last link in my post. That was ADSL.
As to "casual" users well they are more likely to be the ones who will be caught

I checked the link (I read El Reg every day too) and it has no mention of either cable or ADSL, just that it will be run on 40% of VM's network.  VM's ADSL is called Virgin Media National Broadband whilst its cable is called Virgin Media so one could deduce that it is being run on the cable side and not the DSL, although it may just be a box in between both the cable and the dsl connections so it will be run on both.
Casual users are not the ones the record companies want to go for though, they want to go for the persistent file sharers, the ones that download hundreds of songs each week/month and have P2P running 24/7 and sharing terrabytes of files every month (or as its Virgin, hundreds of Kb every week).  Going for the casual "yeah, I usually buy songs but sometimes I'll get a single song" is going to alienate the casual users, the hard core users will remain untouched, BUT, big but this, as the hard core users start to use only encrypted P2P so the casual user will have to use encrypted to join the swarm which will be full of encrypted users.
Of course, lots of VM users can't just up and leave VM because its tied into their phone line and TV so if they decide to leave they need to switch to BT to get ADSL and switch to Sky to get TV, it's a *lot* of hassle for them to do it, unlike us on ADSL who can switch broadband providers with the click of a few mouse buttons (though I need a new mouse, my LMB is double clicking badly and I'm too lazy to change the switch).
Sad fact is though, if the trial with VM is a success Mandy will put it in a nice paper and force every ISP to use the same sort of DPI only with the "3 strikes and your disconnected" rule applied.  ISP's will loath that, if an ISP disconnects you they are the ones breaking the contract so can't ask you for any fees for connection/hardware.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

am sure if you run through any isp's contract there will be a clause in there all ready that allows them to disconnect you
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,296
Thanks: 30
Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Yeppers PN can break the contract any time they desire, the thing is what happens when they break the contract rather than you.  If you break the contract with PN early then PN are entitled to recompense (in the form of paying back connection fees, hardware fees etc.) but if PN break the contract with you, then they can't send you a bill for the connection fee etc.
A while ago people got wind of O2 about to do a price rise, so a ton of people joined up and got their mobile phones and then O2 upped their prices, because of this it gave the people a get out clause (contract changed unfavourably) which meant that they could keep the mobile phone and got out of a contract.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

am not sure of the deatils but when i read an o2 broadband contract there was clauses in there that enabled them to disconnect you, there is normally condtions layed out as to why they may do this and what happens if they do this in the contract
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,773
Thanks: 257
Fixes: 20
Registered: 16-02-2009

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Quote from: dgwebb
I checked the link (I read El Reg every day too)

The last link (on reply #4) was to the inquirer not the reg
David_W
Rising Star
Posts: 2,296
Thanks: 30
Registered: 19-07-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

Yep, but that link is nothing to do with DPI it's the standard "lets fire up a torrent and get hold of the IP addresses" by the look of it, there is no way the ACL could have used technology within the ISP to obtain the information, so they are forced to get the details of suspected people from the ISP they will then send nasty letters along the lines of "you downloaded a film, give us £10,000 or we sue you!" which does give you the right to say "no, sue us and prove it".  The VM system is actual hardware within the ISP that will monitor P2P traffic, if it is unencrypted the technology *should* be able to detect if you are downloading films/music and maybe even offer VM the option to kill the stream.
@Asbo Dog - yep, any ISP can disconnect you for a good reason, but its what happens afterwards.  I recently moved home so PN were nice enough to waive the house move fee for me as long as I stay for 18 months.  Now if I were to leave PN within that 18 months I would have to pay PN the cost of the house move which is fair enough, I'd have broke the contract (but have no intention of leaving PN).  If however PN were to disconnect me (for anything other than non-payment of fees) then it would be them that broke the contract, I would still be disconnected but PN couldn't then ask for the house move fee back.
If I break the contract - All outstanding fees have to be repaid.
If they break the contract - No outstanding fees have to be repaid. (pretty hard for them to claw back 12 months worth of contract fees when they broke the contract)
If Mandy gets his way with a 3 strikes rule, the prolific file sharers will switch ISP to ISP to ISP, and with each one get connection fees waived, the file sharers will get 3 strikes and booted off the network, and the ISP's will be picking up the bill for the connection fees whilst the sharer hits another ISP up for free connection.
custos
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 315
Thanks: 47
Fixes: 1
Registered: 28-06-2007

Re: Virgin Media to trial filesharing monitoring system

I have just received this e-mail from my son who lives in Spain.
Our president (Jose Rodriguez Zapatero) said today that there is no way they will shut down any web sites or blogs, or disconnect any users for file sharing: and under no circumstances will they comply with the new European legislation which wants to allow disconnection without a court order. He states quite clearly that it is obvious that the majority of the electorate want easy access to cultural material and he will defend the wishes of the majority. He understands that intellectual property needs to be protected but the performing rights organizations have to accept the fact that the only logical solution is a completely new model that satisfies both producer and consumer.
It will be interesting to see what other member states do.
By the way, the above e-mail was of course fully encrypted using GnuPG with Claws Mail  Wink