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Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Hello to those who are there and all tech support guys.  Crazy

I have now been switched to the Premium 20 mb/s account from the ADSL Max account I had before.
So I am expecting some increase in my speeds from what I used to have. Well, running it now for a day or two. No increase in speed at all. None.
Same speed as I had before.
First I ran www.speedtester.bt.com with Test1 which took forever:  Angry errrrmmmm nothing happened, eh. It kept hanging on.
"The Performance Tester is now testing Broadband connection. Your configured download throughput speed for this service is 4500 k <~~~~
Please do not move away from this page and do not start any other download activity on your computer."
Which before I could run it without any hitch. Oh well.
Then I went on to www.speedtest.net:
Here are the test results from www.speedtest.net


Then I went to www.pingtest.net
and here are the results of them:

Hmmm it seems that nothing is wrong with my line is it ? But why still the slow crawling speeds that are far from anyway near 7-15  mb/s Huh?
Modem is very much up to the task actually it is one of the most expensive modem routers on the market. It's a Belkin N1 Draft 2.0 ADSL 2+ ready modem.
Can't be wrong either.... Cheesy
Filters are ok. BT box is ok. Lines are ok. Computer ok.  Distance Exchange is far within the spec of DSL specs. Less than 3 miles. Wiring under and above is ok according to BT. So then. Wuts going on eh ?  Undecided
Tested the annuation db's of da line, it's fine man.....  Crazy
So what next do I test to make it all supersmoothHuh  Grin
Come to think that most other countries have speeds beyond recognition, like Korea 23 mb/s Japan, Bulgaria, Portugal, Netherlands and even Moldova which is a poor country beats Brittain hands down. Cept ofcourse Virgin and BE who are delivering what they are saying they  are selling. Sigh after over 11 years with Force9, now Plusnet, still no high speed road......  Embarrassed
Now what is next ? Who is specialized here to squeeze out maximum speeds from a measily copper wire Huh?
I am interested how you lot manage to get those speeds and I don't ?
Well let me know huh ?
Cheers,
KJ  Smiley






158 REPLIES
Lurker
Grafter
Posts: 1,867
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

You have omitted your line statistics as reported by your router.
Without this vital info, the rest could be misinterpreted.
DavidH
Grafter
Posts: 61
Registered: 12-02-2010

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Quote
I am interested how you lot manage to get those speeds and I don't ?

Photoshop. Welcome to the world of O+net
Wink
Lurker
Grafter
Posts: 1,867
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

GIMP - but still...
KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Ahhhhhh,
Photoshopping and GIMPing huh ?  Shocked

I knew it....it's not real world speed right, if that is what ya saying ?

Router specs will stay secret. 007 level. Bond is the name, James Bond. No publications on Forums. Take it from me..... they're fine. Great. Awesome. But no download speed what I expected. Duh !
KJ
KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,

It's getting better by the minute. Never had such low download speeds EVER  in 5 years.
Check it out !


I am singing in the rain, am singing in the rain.  Crazy Crazy over the rainbow, they are crazy !!!!!!!!
Umm no photoshipping took place here.
KJ Grin
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,985
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 3
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

HI
As JamesG states, what is really needed are your line stats. Your speed of around 3500, on a 4500 profile at BTs end is not bad, would expect around 4000ish though. As you say the pingtest is OK.  You are on an 'Up to' 20Mb product, but you may not be on ADSL2+, which allows those speeds, but you may be on ADSL1 over the 21CN network.  IS your Exchange 21CN enabled (see http://www.samknows.com/broadband/search.php and input your exchange).
To get your line stats, see here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php
HTH
KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Ok here goes some technical stuff for the smarty pants.
Attenutation Coefficient.
Now what is that ? Let me tell ya !
Errrmmm, Attenuation coefficients are used to quantify different media according to how strongly the transmitted ultrasound amplitude decreases as a function of frequency. The attenuation coefficient (α) can be used to determine total attenuation in dB in the medium using the following formula:
Attenuation [dB] = α [dB/(MHz *cm)] . l [cm] . f [MHz]
As this equation shows, besides the medium length and attenuation coefficient, attenuation is also linearly dependent on the frequency of the incident ultrasound beam. Attenuation coefficients vary widely for different media. In biomedical ultrasound imaging however, biological materials and water are the most commonly used media. The attenuation coefficients of common biological materials at a frequency of 1 MHz are listed below:
Material
It's calculated as follows.......α(dB / (MHz * cm)) okaaaaaaaaayyyy  Crazy
Let's see a few examples just for the human thought process. Well here goes.

Lung 41
Bone 20
Kidney 1.0
Liver 0.94
Brain 0.85
Fat 0.63
Blood 0.18
Water 0.23222
Well here it is Copper wire and so called crock umm cross talk. lol.
http://www.timesmicrowave.com/cgi-bin/calculate.pl  A calculator how to calculate attenuation etc etc.

Due to the electrical properties of copper wiring, data signals will undergo some corruption during their travels. Signal corruption within certain limits is acceptable, but if the electrical properties of the cable will cause serious distortion of the signal, that cable must be replaced or repaired.
As a signal propagates down a length of cable, it loses some of its energy. So, a signal that starts out with a certain input voltage, will arrive at the load with a reduced voltage level. The amount of signal loss is known as attenuation, which is measured in decibels, or dB. If the voltage drops too much, the signal may no longer be useful.
Attenuation has a direct relationship with frequency and cable length. The high frequency used by the network, the greater the attenuation. Also, the longer the cable, the more energy a signal loses by the time it reaches the load.
A signal losses energy during its travel because of electrical properties at work in the cable. For example, every conductor offers some dc resistance to a current (sometimes called copper losses). The longer the cable, the more resistance it offers.
Resistance reduces the amount of signal passing through the wires - it does not alter the signal. Reactance, inductive or capacitive, distorts the signal.
The two concerns of signal transmission are:
That enough signal gets through. (Quantity)
That the signal is not distorted. (Quality)
Blah Blah etc. etc.   Sad
There are two general ways of acoustic energy losses: absorption and scattering, for instance light scattering. Ultrasound propagation through homogeneous media is associated only with absorption and can be characterized with absorption coefficient only. Propagation through heterogeneous media requires taking into account scattering.
Now in order to get fasssssst  Cheesy speed online you need da screw the things up ya, let's say,

Attenuation in fiber optics, also known as transmission loss, is the reduction in intensity of the light beam (or signal) with respect to distance travelled through a transmission medium. Attenuation coefficients in fiber optics usually use units of dB/km through the medium due to the relatively high quality of transparency of modern optical transmission media. The medium is typically a fiber of silica glass that confines the incident light beam to the inside. Attenuation is an important factor limiting the transmission of a digital signal across large distances. Thus, much research has gone into both limiting the attenuation and maximizing the amplification of the optical signal. Empirical research has shown that attenuation in optical fiber is caused primarily by both scattering and absorption.
[6] Attenuation in fiber optics can be quantified using the following equation:
                                         ( Output Intensity (W)   )
Attenuation (dB) = 10 x log10 (-------------------------------- )
                                         (  Input Intensity (W)     )
Yeah if you still can follow me.  Cheesy You calculate the right speed that goes over a line. Which is what a BT engineer must do, but always wants to stay on the safe side.
In the meantime I want to answer mr. HTH aka Penfold, Yes, I am on a enabled 21CN exchange, umm well at least they are saying so down here in SOUTHALL. Just look for yourself, unless they are lying up there.http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=LWSOU I just live a little accross the train track FYI.  And the modem that I have is far superior of what www.kitz.co.uk is having online. As a matter of fact it is not even there. Because it is better than all those generic models.
So all the hypothetical theories on here don't fly with me. I know what I am talking about.  A few months back I had some things also about my ADSL Max up to 8 Mb/s and it took many many tests and trials before it was getting around 5.9 mb/s it used to be 6.2 mb/s but whatever.
All I can see it is fluctuating all the time but by far it is NOT up to 20 Mb/s especially when my profile is set to 4000.  Whatever that profile is containing is a mystery because I have seen it more than that.
So where were we ? Checking, Checking. Interleaving on/off in between or above. The stuff that I have is good stuff not the standard stuff that you buy in the PC World, which every Tom, Dick and Harry is applying in their home. I have professional stuff, professional lines, professional computers, not the 100 mb/s LAN's but the 1000 Mb/s LAN etc etc.  But what is the point if you have no speed to pressure through it.
Speed is what counts. Fast and as advertised. So a drop from almost 5,9 mb/s to 1,7 mb/s something, is just showing that it is NOT me. It never was. It never will be. It's just the bandwith that is screwed by 5 million simultaneous users on the line. Who so necessarily have to download the latest Terabyte sized movie and what ever. The average ISP just can't handle it. Can you imagine what will happen when the Olympic games start ? Hahahhahaha. You will hear all these copper wire lines go like Owieeeeeeeeeeeeee, ouch, ouch, ouch and moan like hell because we still go like 2-3 mb/s Harf Harf  Grin
Now that is Britain's Internet (only on few places fiberoptics) and Infrastructure for ya. Just FYI. Pot holes everywhere on the road, just a little Snowmageddon makes the UK look like the dark ages and we are almost living in Neanderthal caves again. Britain is the place where you loose you car in a pothole that is so big that they need a crane to get you out and also break your wheels off like my next door neighbour who is now mad like hell and is going through the roof and now wants to blow up the local council because of not looking after our roads in our neighbourhood. lol  Grin P.S. Reminds me of Jamaica, same problem there.
So it is with ISP's, lots of loudmouths, but no delivery. Plenty of advertising and billboards but no cigar.  Angry It is what it is. Duh ! And we just put up with it. Because we are British. Ooops I am Dutch,  Tongue but that is beside the point here. Do we really ? Oh yeah, Britons are laid back, swallow everything as is dished.  Grin
Well, let me stop now because I am running out of time. Still no speed. Hurray. Another day.
Ttyl,
KJ  Smiley




Lurker
Grafter
Posts: 1,867
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Quote from: KJILM123
Well, let me stop now because I am running out of time. Still no speed. Hurray. Another day.

Perhaps if you hadn't wasted all that time, and had instead posted your stats, you might have got a more useful answer.
Assuring us that they are good is not really a great indicator - you've already demonstrated that you don't understand them fully, otherwise you wouldn't be asking the questions you have.

PS - It was your comment about Virgin and BE in your first post which exposed your understanding of the subject matter. Wink
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 13,423
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Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Quote from: KJILM123
Hmmm it seems that nothing is wrong with my line is it ? But why still the slow crawling speeds that are far from anyway near 7-15  mb/s Huh?

What makes you think you'd get up to 15Mbps? From what I can tell your IP profile fluctuated between 4000kbps and 4500kbps whilst you were on Max? Depending on your line length, sync speed and attenuation figures you might not actually see much of a speed improvement on ADSL2+. If you look here you'll see that the best you can realistically expect is a 2Mbps increase. That takes you to a maximum of 8000kbps and that's assuming you had a 6000kbps-6500kbps IP profile when you were on Max (which you didn't during the latter weeks/months, it was lower)
Also worth noting is the fact that your current account type only has a maximum throughput speed of 7150kbps. This throttling is applied at our end and won't be increased until your account change goes through on the 14th. Even if you could get above 8000kbps, we would be restricting your speeds until your account is actually changed.
Quote
So what next do I test to make it all supersmoothHuh  Grin

I hope you don't mind me posting your line stats for the benefit of others that are trying to help?
Downstream Attn 38db
Downstream SNR 11.4db
Sync speed 4644kbps
IP profile 4000kbps

Whilst you're synchronising at 4644kbps you're never going to get throughout above the 3500kbps mark. Your SNR margin is quite high, and could quite feasibly be higher than when you were on Max. With a default downstream SNR of 6db you can expect the sync speed to increase by circa 1500kbps.
You really need to get the sync speed up. I'd be interested to see if it increases the next time you lose/regain resync or reboot your router (best to do this during early hours of the morning BTW).

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Quote from: Bob
Quote from: KJILM123
Hmmm it seems that nothing is wrong with my line is it ? But why still the slow crawling speeds that are far from anyway near 7-15  mb/s Huh?

"What makes you think you'd get up to 15Mbps?"
I am not thinking that, it is possible and not only theoretically, because others have the proof they have it, unless they have photoshopped their tests as someone suggested, but I know this is just a joke to have a laugh with me. Or at me, it depends from which perspective you look at it.  Grin

" what I can tell your IP profile fluctuated between 4000kbps and 4500kbps whilst you were on Max?"
Yes, I know and that was my bout for months with Plusnet because I used to have a profile of 6200 mb/s and not that speed, in which I have vigorously have complaint about it last year . Check my history. That was when Force 9 was on the Tiscali line you were renting at that time but that was in the year 2001 and onwards and with a Eicon Diva 2440 ADSL modem which is superseded by my modem that I have now.
" Depending on your line length, sync speed and attenuation figures you might not actually see much of a speed improvement on ADSL2+. If you look here you'll see that the best you can realistically expect is a 2Mbps increase. That takes you to a maximum of 8000kbps and that's assuming you had a 6000kbps-6500kbps IP profile when you were on Max (which you didn't during the latter weeks/months, it was lower)"
[b"]Also worth noting is the fact that your current account type only has a maximum throughput speed of 7150kbps. This throttling is applied at our end and won't be increased until your account change goes through on the 14th. Even if you could get above 8000kbps, we would be restricting your speeds until your account is actually changed."

"I hope you don't mind me posting your line stats for the benefit of others that are trying to help?" No I don't, I already knew.
Downstream Attn 38db
Downstream SNR 11.4db
Sync speed 4644kbps
IP profile 4000kbps

Hmmm, About my Downstream Attenuation it was between 23 and 26 db and not 38 db. It never was and has been. So I don't know where you got that from. Still it would result in calculation of been able to have a profile of 8000 which I have seen in the past yet still I did not have the download speed at all. Even if it was like that then still it would be sufficient from the distance of the Exchange where I live. Unless they have not made all the cables up to date here. But according to my BT engineer across the road they all have updated those few years ago. Even in the joint in front of my house as well. I have seen them doing the stuff. So if they have not made it state of the art then, you should harass BT on checking up what their engineers are actually doing. Or they are just lying or they are just delivering shoddy work for ££££'s ripped off from us. Don't get me wrong. I am aware that BT is the largest employer of whatever company, that does not mean that they can get away with 2 mb/s at the 2012 Olympic games.http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14322-uk-to-get-superfast-broadband-by-2012.html, Promises, Promises. All we will get is 2 mb/s.  This is clearly not in the rest of Europe. The rest of Europe thrives on Fiber optics, The Netherlands, Germany, France, Belgium, Denmark etc  etc Just check it out on here: http://www.speedtest.net/global.php#0 So should Britain.  And those are just across the pond. Britain is ermmm was 4 richest country in the world, why the heck they still have not figured out how do High Speed Internet huh ? Check it out http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html

"you're synchronising at 4644kbps you're nev Smileyer going to get throughout above the 3500kbps mark. Your SNR margin is quite high, and could quite feasibly be higher than when you were on Max. With a default downstream SNR of 6db you can expect the sync speed to increase by circa 1500kbps."

Nobody has SNR of 6 dB, I don't see anyone have it. If someone has, then tell me where they live and I will visit them and see for myself. Again it shows how the total of  the infrastructure is as I said in the former post. Just bad. Average and at default. Never ahead of the game, like others on the continent. Just waiting until they can rip us off more for mediocre service. BT that is. Which is common thing in Britain. Only those who shell out thousands of pounds can have the priviledge, but normal Tom, Dick and Jane can't get such mediocre service.
"You really need to get the sync speed up. I'd be interested to see if it increases the next time you lose/regain resync or reboot your router (best to do this during early hours of the morning BTW)."

Ofcourse in the morning, then is when everyone goes to work and is sleeping nobody is doing anything, ofcourse you get higher syncs, I have seen it, but as soon you come down to 6-11 pm then it is all snail pace again.
@ James G, Yes a lot of time is wasted. I see it a lot and unnecessary and just blatantly done for no reason by organisations who love to run like chicken without head and saddle nice people like me with their antics.  Crazy  Did you not hear what others say about this country on the football field ? This is just a "stupid" country. And they all know they can do better than that, if they can leave the private things that bother them at home. I can tell numerous issues the time that I have lived here (15 years), where I can say. Sheesh !!!  It's so easy why doing difficult like that and then waste your day with silliness.
And it can be different. I am convinced about it. But no one listens. Everyone does their own thing they see fit.  We like to sit in our little think thank and rule the world as if we are spoiled brats. Well guess what ? It's over ! The world is ruling by itselves and don't need any more meddling from Britain or anyone else. Let's take care of our own yard first before we go and tell others what to do. That is the main point. And Man, does our backyard look bad !
Now back to Internet and ISP's. I can remember that BT had a stand somewhere in Olympia many years ago. The only speed they got then was 2 mb/s and I am telling you, it was so fast you could not even blink your eye or all was on the screen already. That is the speed we need but we do not have this today. Far from it.  We can do all those nice calculations and all those complicated formula's to let it sound real scientific and well meant. But unless we are really doing something about this wrecked infrastructure, you will have people like me,  going online and tell what we find from the service that is delivered. It's called know your rights. Ask Angelina Jolie she has it tattooed on her neck. I guess we must ask ourselves the same. Is it what we have bargained for, if not then we must stand up and tell them, not sit back and being complacent.
So time to stand up and let them know, no more foolishness and get cracking what is advertised and no more excuses of all this hullaballoo about this and that and so and so and all the criteria needs to be met before we can do this.  Cheesy
Quote:

"Only one man ever understood me, and he didn't understand me"  Grin

Cheers,
KJ

gswindale
Grafter
Posts: 942
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

I've just read through most of the waffle above and found the following
Quote
It's called know your rights.

and you are getting a service that is within the product specification, so which rights of yours are being broken here?
KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

The up to 20 mb/s rights in the contract ! I did not sign up for up to 4 mb/s contract did I ? The service is clearly not within the product specification package as in: "Approximate percentage of UK households covered by LLU area which means:" Around 40% of UK population can get up to 20Mbps download and 1Mbps upload speeds on this package. These are BT's promises and specifications. As far as I know Plusnet is using the services of BT over my BT line and on top of that I live in London (World Capital of Europe) and at least 20% of the UK population are living there. So I should be in the 40% that is eligible to such speeds.  It is the sole reasons why many people are walking away from Plusnet as an ISP, because they don't get what they are signing up for. I don't know about you, but if you are going around this forum you will understand why I am saying so. It is also for Plusnet to wake-up and smell the coffee and do something extraordinary, otherwise they will go down the drain because of lack of customers. That is one of the reasons, I am doing this. If you think I am waffling, then take a Belgian Waffle for a change instead of a Dutch one. If you are just here to make me look silly, then why don't you tell us what your Internet speed and specs are huh ? And if you find it is in your "product specification limits" then explain here in minute detail why you find that so and why you are so incredible satisfied ? Don't get me wrong that I am not partially satisfied, but I am kind of more vocal when it is not. It's a Dutch thing. Go visit Holland, nice country, well organised on a small level. But I am living here, so I kind of put up with a lot of things here in Britain and think it can do better. That's my opinion and I am entitled to that, like anyone else is. And I am certainly not the only one here. Nor I am Vexatious as a word says and if you think I am, then I am telling you are wrong, because I am not.  Wink
Until then, Geoff, As you were, I was. As I am, you will be, maybe one day. If ya lucky. If ya know what your rights are.....  Grin

Regards,
KJ

[Moderator's note by Jim (Oldjim):  Full quote of preceding post removed, as per Forum Rules ]
KJILM123
Grafter
Posts: 112
Registered: 12-06-2009

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

Oldjim, I was not making any trespass regarding the rules.
Just read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/04/ofcom_wades_into_net_neutrality_row/ and http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cffffeb6-26be-11df-bd0c-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1
I am not making it up as I go. The internet is full of it. You can clearly see that it is not an isolated case regarding myself but it is a UK wide problem already.
Cheers,
KJ
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Tests done by KJILM123 for Premium 20 Mb/s account switch.

what a complete load of clap trap, fails at the first highlighted fence.  Plusnet do not employ LLU