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Stand up for your freedom ...

Heloman
Grafter
Posts: 519
Registered: 30-07-2007

Stand up for your freedom ...

....to install free software!
There are considerable doubts about M/S's intention with Windows 8 to install a "secure boot"::
http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/secure-boot-vs-restricted-boot/statement
20 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,846
Thanks: 121
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Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Doesn't this just mean (in the worst interpretation of what Microsoft plans) that you buy your computer without Windows pre-installed (which should give you a considerable cost saving) then install the Linux version of your choice?
Waldo
Grafter
Posts: 473
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

It's relatively easy to buy a desktop system without a pre-installed OS; there's precious little choice where laptops are concerned.
In reality, I think any OEM which ships its product(s) with an installed OS and firmware / hardware which prevents installation of any other OS is leaving itself open to legal action on anti-competition grounds. 
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,846
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Registered: 14-07-2009

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: Waldo
I think any OEM which ships its product(s) with an installed OS and firmware / hardware which prevents installation of any other OS is leaving itself open to legal action on anti-competition grounds. 

Apple?
Community Veteran
Posts: 8,404
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Registered: 02-08-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

BG is one of the richest people on the planet, just how much does he want to make ?
Heloman
Grafter
Posts: 519
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: Waldo
In reality, I think any OEM which ships its product(s) with an installed OS and firmware / hardware which prevents installation of any other OS is leaving itself open to legal action on anti-competition grounds. 

When I first bought a Windows OEM box it used just two of the four primary partitions on the HDD.
Recently almost (if not) all OEM's unnecessarily use all four partitions for the Windows installation!
OK, this is not insurmountable but it sure makes it more difficult for the average user thinking about trying a different OS.
Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

I can't see any OEM doing this without an opt-out in the BIOS or similar, with the exception of Apple which is a whole other kettle of fish.
Also the EU would likely take a rather dim view of this.
With my pedantic hat on, BG doesn't run Microsoft anymore, it's Steve Ballmer these days.
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,826
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Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Why should an OEM put in an opt-out - it's extra work for them and by the time the user wants to use a better OS, they've already taken your money.
We could end up having to buy servers with graphics cards to avoid this "feature".

Ben_Brown
Grafter
Posts: 2,839
Registered: 13-06-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

I don't see what graphics cards have to do with this. All the servers we buy these days have graphics capabilities. Even Sun/Oracle servers have graphics these days, it's been a long time since anyone made serial only servers.
I really think people are getting a bit too hyped up about this; we don't even know how it will be implemented yet.
CX
Grafter
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Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: Ben
All the servers we buy these days have graphics capabilities.

Like the ironically named ASpeed range of chips? Even ATI's late 90s Rage II family perform better than those things, as well as NX and RDP.
Quote from: Ben
we don't even know how it will be implemented yet.

It strikes me as being yet another pointless FSF FUD campaign, to go along with their anti-DRM nonsense - personally I would rather have hardware and software which is capable of handling DRM if needed than some hobbled Ogg-supporting piece of low-end junk. The way the FSF pushed that made less technical people think that the evil Windows Vista and Windows 7 inject DRM into your free media. I don't see this campaign as being any different - in their opinion Microsoft might be pushing un-named OEMs to implement something in a way that they think it may be. Seriously?!? They give Linux the reputation of freetardism and possibly are themselves as much to blame for single digit market share as any UEFI changes will ever be (if their conjecture turns out to be true). Linux is great, FOSS is great, but freetardism is not and puts people off.
But hey, I guess they have to spend their donations somehow.
VileReynard
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Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: CX23882
It strikes me as being yet another pointless FSF FUD campaign, to go along with their anti-DRM nonsense - personally I would rather have hardware and software which is capable of handling DRM if needed than some hobbled Ogg-supporting piece of low-end junk. The way the FSF pushed that made less technical people think that the evil Windows Vista and Windows 7 inject DRM into your free media. I don't see this campaign as being any different - in their opinion Microsoft might be pushing un-named OEMs to implement something in a way that they think it may be. Seriously?!? They give Linux the reputation of freetardism and possibly are themselves as much to blame for single digit market share as any UEFI changes will ever be (if their conjecture turns out to be true). Linux is great, FOSS is great, but freetardism is not and puts people off.

Could you write that in English, please?

CX
Grafter
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Registered: 16-09-2010

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

I suppose the tl;dr version would be:
The FSF use half-truths to slander Microsoft and Apple.
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,826
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Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

I think it goes three ways.
I wonder which half of the allegations against Microsoft is the true half though?

Heloman
Grafter
Posts: 519
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: Ben
I really think people are getting a bit too hyped up about this; we don't even know how it will be implemented yet.

Disagree. I don't think we are getting too hyped up.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09/26/uefi_linux_lock_out_row_latest/
"Garrett said that Windows 8 certification requires that hardware ship with UEFI secure boot enabled. A feature allowing secure boot to be disabled – necessary to run Linux and FreeBSD on certified systems – is not required for certification. "We've already been informed by hardware vendors that some hardware will not have this option," Garrett writes in a flow-up blog post to his original critique of the technology."
HighLordPhanty
Grafter
Posts: 54
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: Stand up for your freedom ...

Quote from: CX23882
personally I would rather have hardware and software which is capable of handling DRM

If everyone thought that way, that would be all you could get and DRM would become compulsory by the back door. cf the egregious TPM.
Quote from: CX23882
Ogg-supporting piece of low-end junk

Being supported by low end hardware is actually a good thing for a standard.
Quote from: CX23882
Microsoft might be pushing un-named OEMs to implement something in a way that they think it may be. Seriously?!?

And Microsoft have never used OEM agreements to force OEMs to do what they want. Windows Tax anyone?
Quote from: CX23882
Linux is great, FOSS is great, but freetardism is not and puts people off.

What's this got to do with freetards? This is about freedom to install the OS of your choice. No-one's getting anything for nothing.