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Router for rural line

jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Router for rural line

Update on progress towards getting best performance out of my rural line:
Since Mar 2009, I've busied myself buying/trying/upgrading/testing/maybe-reselling loads of different modem/routers (52 at last count), in an endeavour to get the best out of my poor rural line (4+ miles, 68+db). Only recently, I found and cured the major obstacle on my line - my neighbours faulty power extension - so I am now re-evaluating the best ones I found previously.
At any specific target SNRM, the 2700HGV gives the best sync rate, but because it is not SNRM-tweakable and because my target SNRM has now risen from its lowest (Plusnet-appointed) point of 9 back to 15, its not my first choice, because at SNRM 15, the max sync I can get is around 1300. Its a lovely thing tho - excellent management features on firmware 5 - and provides attenuation figures above 63.5db. If my target SNRM was sustainably 6, this is the one I'd choose.
I can't expect my target SNRM to stay at 9 because of all the chopping/changing/testing I do (some poor modems just kill my profile, and unstable ones have done for my target SNRM), so SNRM-tweakable devices are my usual ones....Netgear DG834G V4 and DG834GT, both with DGTeam firmware, and I have a marginal preference for the DG834G V4. These have been my usual 'regular' choice. I can tweak them to a daytime SNRM of 8 'ish and get a stable 1440 over 24 hours (their SNRM drops to around 5.5 at night)....I can get them to give higher speeds, but the error rates increase dramatically, and I believe from experience that high rates will cause a target SNRM increase.
Early in my quest, I tried a Billion 7300, and found it easily the fastest, but not sustainable at night - it has a hardwired SNRM of 6 and wouldn't cope during the evening degradation - it resync'd several times. Since curing the noisy neighbour tho, I'm retrying a variety of Billions - 5200, 7300 (and soon a 7404).....and I'm absolutely delighted with them. The 7300, especially, now gives the best performance ever for me....usually holds a sync rate of 2016  thru the day and night, with SNRM rising to around 7 at around 9am  and dropping to around 4at around 10pm - moderate error rates too. The 5200 series is similar in performance, but don't have as many control features as the 7300 - tho I think they may be just very slightly faster. So I now can often have a 1750 profile instead of 1000/1250.
I do intend to give the Netgears another spell of testing, then I may attempt a hands-off for 4-5 weeks in an attempt to get the target SNRM lowered  (the most I've ever managed was 17 days and it had no effect on the target SNRM). But at the moment, my default choice is the Billion 7300 with a reflashed BT Home Hub (to be an ST7G) to provide wi-fi connection.
Jack
22 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Router for rural line

My experience on a somewhat shorter line 52dB is that the DG834G v4 with latest Netgear firmware holds sync even down to 2.5db noise margin but with an horrendous error rate. For this reason I keep my sync speed between 3500kbps and 3900kbps as going over 4000kbps gives too low a noise margin overnight with terrible error rates.
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Router for rural line

echo what oldjim says about the v4 on same attention but on adsl2.
upstream errors started with a random bug ive not seen before
no point pushing the sync upwards to try for a 3500kbps profile as the error rates just to high for a fastpath line. so i sync as close as i can to the 3000kbps profile sync theshold to reduce the unused sync
jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Re: Router for rural line

OLD JIM & ASBO:
Yes, those attenuation figures of yours are not too far away from a friend who lives 1km closer to the same exchange as me. He's now getting around 4000kbps at his target SNRM of 6, and his attenuation is around 54/55.  He's using a Linksys  WAG2000 (or 200?), and it holds out down to around 3.0. We tried a HVG, and it gave similar sync rates, as did my DG834GT (untweaked SNRM).
My impression is growing that the performance/quality issues and effects surrounding modems become much more pronounced at the very high end of possible attenuation.
jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Re: Router for rural line

Oops, I forgot to mention another point:
At various times in the year (storms, snow etc), out in the sticks we suffer a number of power cuts - often very small duration - and these caused issues with the router dropping out, then back up, then back down etc. I put an RCD on the socket for the router (and one for TV/video, and one for PCs etc) so that when the power goes once, I have to do a manual reset when I think the outages are all over and done.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Router for rural line

That is interesting because I have a couple of RCD breakers on my external feeds and they are both designed to sutomatically reset after a power cut
jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Re: Router for rural line

Hi OldJim,
The ones I use are the sort for power tools, garden kit and the like......they have a 'test' button, a 'set' button and a large 'Reset' tab on the top.......if mains is interrupted, the unit trips, and has to be manually reset.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,460
Thanks: 1,030
Fixes: 62
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Router for rural line

I use mine for the pump feeding the waterfall and for the greenhouse heater - they still have a reset button but don't need resetting after a power failure only after I cut through a wire etc.  Lips are sealed
Mand
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Posts: 5,560
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Registered: 05-04-2007

Re:Router for rural line

jack21, 52 routers? That's some serious dedication!
Once you've finishing all your testing we can probably get the target SNR reset, BT are loathe to do this more than once though, so I'd recommend waiting 'til your happy that you've squeezed everything you can out of the line your side.
jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Re: Router for rural line

Wow, thats a great offer - thanks Mand - I'll take you up on that in due course.
I've got just another couple of Billions to thoroughly test - a 7404 and a 2009 model of the 7300, then a retest of the DG834G V4 and DG834GT, then thats as far as I plan to take my investigation, so I'll be in touch later  (Dec/Jan?).
Best Wishes,
Jack
leeanthony
Grafter
Posts: 372
Registered: 27-07-2008

Re: Router for rural line

Thanks for this it helped me too Smiley
I would like to know what is best the v4 or GT? or are u still unsure
jack21
Grafter
Posts: 180
Registered: 25-02-2009

Re: Router for rural line

V4 versus GT.......
GT is cheaper (if bought off Ebay as ex-Sky model)
GT has better wireless
V4 (extremely marginally) seems to have a lower error rate.......its very hard to be specific tho, since line quality/performance needs to be exactly the same for both under test - virtually impossible for me.
V4 (extremely, extremely marginally) seems to be the most stable - NEVER a hiccup, but once (!) a GT had to be rebooted.
leeanthony
Grafter
Posts: 372
Registered: 27-07-2008

Re: Router for rural line

sounds good to me mate ive just ordered the v4 as u prob saw in other thread, nice1 thx a bill SmileySmiley
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Router for rural line

Well done Jack, I've bookmarked the thread Smiley
SarcasticGuy1
Grafter
Posts: 70
Registered: 27-11-2009

Re: Router for rural line

Hi jack21.
Could I ask if you tried the Thomson Speedtouch 585 v6 during your testing?
I heard they were supposed to be on a par with the 2700HGV but more tweakable.
I'm curious because I also don't have the best line and bought a Speedtouch 585v6 to use. Although recently my performance has picked up a bit with my D-Link DSL-G804V so I'm a little reluctant to fiddle.
I've also heard good things about the DG834G. Do you know if the V5 is as good as the V4? Looking around it seems hard to identify which one some places are selling.
Cheers.