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New EMC Directive and what it means.

barnyard
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎28-10-2014

New EMC Directive and what it means.

This is more of a question to the admins and owners of PlusNet than an informative post.
We have been suffering from REIN for the past 3 years now. The culprit has been identified by BTOR and the offending equipment has been tested by BTOR's REIN team. The owner, well the landlord of the offending equipment basically told the engineers he was not interested in peoples broadband connection, his security cameras were more important! BTOR being powerless under the current legislation were unable to do anything more, leaving us, some 17 properties with a broadband connection that ...well it isn't broadband!
So my questions.
Come April 20th 2016 the new EMC directive comes in to force. Link... http://www.conformance.co.uk/adirectives/doku.php?id=emc
How do you and your parent company BT tend to apply the new regulations?
For existing problems, such as ours, will they be addressed as a matter of course or will another REIN team need to be deployed to test the suspected equipment? If so do I need to contact you and then you argue the case with the REIN team?
The thing is, these elusive REIN engineers are a tough bunch of people to get information to and from. It took me a freedom of information act request just to get an acknowledgement of the issue I am suffering.
So given the difficulties we have, how can we proceed? Do I have to apply in writing for the engineers to visit or will you do this as a matter of course?
Come April 20th I fully expect a fix. It is not too much to ask after 3 years of suffering and you now have plenty of notice so it's not like a surprise!!
Be it they are disconnected from the drop pole or their offending security cameras disabled I care not.
3 years is enough...
7 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,366
Thanks: 15
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

A CCTV system assuming all the cameras are wired, not wireless, are classed as 'unintentional radiators'. So they have to pass quite a few regulations to be CE marked. So are the cameras actually CE marked or have they they been 'imported' at low cost from the Far East?
Or are they using low quality, so poorly shielded, and hence 'leaky', coax cables to connect up the cameras?
--
3Mb FTTC
https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed
Gel
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 1,662
Thanks: 168
Fixes: 14
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

Beware, in most cases the CE mark is a self assessment mark that many unscrupulous importers simply have applied at the factory.
In a few cases, where the CE Mark has a reference number below it, this is confirmation that the required Product Testing has been carried out at an assessed 3rd party lab eg BSI/ BRE etc. to the relevant Euro Product Standard.
See attachment relating to a smoke alarm.
(This is under new requirements under The CPD (Construction Products Directive).
I was in the electrical products trade for most of my career so have some knowledge of the CE Mark - many people assume (wrongly) is a quality mark-
in majority of cases it isn't currently.
For the majority of electrical products not under the CPD, you have to be reliant on the brand; a major brand such as such as Philips, would ensure all
it's products are 3rd party accredited before applying the CE Mark; a cheap/ unknown brand wouldn't bother with the expense & £delays£ in product certification.
barnyard
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎28-10-2014

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

Unfortunately the offending cameras are high up on metal posts so it would not be possible to gain access and review them for CE accreditation or reveal any serial numbers. It is a very frustrating situation to find yourself in, knowing what the problem is, exactly what is causing the problem but absolutely powerless to do anything about it.
I have written to the chairman of the company explaining our plight and he did respond and was willing to help us resolve this situation even sending an area manager to meet me and discuss the problem.
The real problem is with BTOR and their REIN team. They flatly refused to meet the company representative to discuss the issue and provide them with the proof needed for them to fix the problematic cameras. Plusnet did try to arrange for the REIN engineers to  visit but were turned down by BTOR as the fault was logged and that was that.
So the question is, given the new legislation, can BTOR and their REIN engineers be forced to make another visit on the 20th April 2016? If the equipment is once again found to be at fault can BTOR disconnect the drop line to the premises?
Come on Plusnet. You need to be up to speed on legislation, both current and pending!
pwatson
Rising Star
Posts: 2,468
Thanks: 8
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎26-11-2012

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

I think you're completely misreading the legislation - It's aimed at manufacturers and confers penalties should trading standards or Ofcom find that equipment does not pass the relevant tests.  I very much doubt that it's retrospective ie it isn't applicable to equipment manufactured prior to the date and it certainly doesn't change BT's obligation to investigate (or not).
Personally I'd write to Ofcom and to your MP as they may have some clout in forcing the owner of the cameras to modify their installation.  BT have no jurisdiction and *could* just shrug their shoulders, say that the line will never perform due to interference outside their control and withdraw service,,,
barnyard
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎28-10-2014

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

Retospective, thats the keyword. Does that mean that all faulty or faked CE marked equipment is absolved of the new legislations? No further testing shall be carried out under the new guidelines and legislations so we are left to suffer ad infinitum?  Writing to my MP will do little to resolve the situation when it is indeed BTOR themselves who are the culprits, knowingly aiding and abbeting interference over telecommunications systems. There are many threads not just on here, of people suffering from REIN interference. Should we all just bow down and accept this? Here is a chance for us poor souls, who pay the same line rental as everyone else, to finally get something done. Force BTOR if you like, to take control of their lines and disconnect offending equipment.
Sorry to sound like I am ranting...
We had a stable and reliable 5Mb connection, not the fastest, but stable. Then all hell broke loose. We now a have a very juddery 2Mb connection with FEC errors through the roof! Do we have discounted line rental in relation to our quality of service? That would be NO. So why should we be expected to just accept the situation? There is no help nor discount from BTOR and the reclusive REIN team...Please, you try and find a telephone number for that department. There is the crutch. We know the problem, the owners know the problem and the REIN team know the problem... Yet we cannot move forward as the REIN team are untouchable and un contactable.
Please, if you have a contact number for this elusive and elite group of engineers enlighten me. All 17 properties who are affected by this would love to get this resolved. After 3 years it is becoming somewhat tiresome!
barnyard
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎28-10-2014

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

Just to follow up on this. I emailed the CE Marking Association in an effort to gain some clarification on the new legislation and to see if we could force either BT or the company who owns the equipment to resolve the problem we are suffering. I have had to remove personal details and links to post it here but the text otherwise is "as is".
The current and the new directives offers the same approach to non-compliant products, that it is the enforcement authorities that take action. In respect of the EMC Directive it is the Trading Standards that enforce compliance of the EMC Directive. Perhaps BT or yourselves should have spoken to them rather than the owners who probably have no responsibility as it is the manufacturers of the product that does. Trading Standards can be found at http://www.tradingstandards.uk/

Interestingly, the EMC Directive also requires that equipment should be immune from interference, are you sure that the BT Equipment could also be responsible!
That final sentence... EMC Directive also requires that equipment should be immune from interference...  I believe a typo on the next part ...are you sure that the BT Equipment could also be responsible!
Missed a "not" between the could and the also.
So.. Plusnet... Do I have to follow this up or are you going to represent your paying customer?
I'm not going away, in fact i'm here and will be a constant thorn in your side until you resolve this issue.
My next step is Trading Standards, as recommended in part of the email received from CE Marking Association I have not published.
The ball as it were, is firmly in my court. Finally legislation is coming into play that will defend the consumer from the monopoly of BT's infrastructure and their policy of the lines were never designed for data, only voice and as such we don't have responsibility for data carrier problems or interference over the lines from external sources.  Yep... You do now, or you will on the 20th April!
itsme
Grafter
Posts: 5,924
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎07-04-2007

Re: New EMC Directive and what it means.

The immunity part of the EMC does not call for a product to work unaffected but within acceptable limits and that the product recover. Also the interference test is done in a controlled environment using the specified frequencies and signal strengths.
I don't believe the current or the new directive place any responsibility on a supplier to report a third party. So you best bet is to approach trading standards yourself