Homeplug/powerline ethernet

[#1]

I am well covered by my wifi access, with two access points, except for at the very back of the garden (summer house) and in the garage - so I was thinking to maybe buy a pair of these Homeplug type units. I'm fairly savvy networking wise, I began back in the days of coax ethernet, but I know nothing about these homeplug type devices at all.

Do they just acquire an IP from the main router they are connected to?

Do they use a pairing system, like bluetooth?

Can extra homeplugs be added to the first one, the one connected to the router?

Is one make of homeplug generally able to be used paired with any other?

Do you configure them by logging into them, rather like logging into a router?

Are these things secure, or are these easy to hack into from someone with another homeplug near you?

[#2]

They're pretty much all plug and play these days.

Take a look at something like these: Data transfer speed up to 600 Mbps over electrical wires, Up to 300 m range over the household power circuit, Power saving mode, No setup required, simply plug and play.

TP-Link TL-PA4010KIT V1.20 600 Nano Powerline Adapter Starter Kit, No Configuration Required, UK Plu...

So much better than the first gen 14 Mbit/s.

[#3 · Accepted solution]

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@harrym1byt wrote:

Do they just acquire an IP from the main router they are connected to?

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They don't need one, just think of them as a virtual length of Ethernet cable

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Do they use a pairing system, like bluetooth?

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They have pairing buttons, so more like WPS

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Can extra homeplugs be added to the first one, the one connected to the router?

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Yes

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Is one make of homeplug generally able to be used paired with any other?

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Yes but they will run at the speed of the slowest

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Do you configure them by logging into them, rather like logging into a router?

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Yes they come with an app that you run on your pc

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Are these things secure, or are these easy to hack into from someone with another homeplug near you?

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You need to be very careful to set up your security. There are many reports on people leaving them on default settings and accidently picking up neighbour's networks

See also https://community.plus.net/t5/Tech-Help-Software-Hardware-etc/Powerline-Networking-Issues/m-p/150635...

My advice is that you are much better off installing a CAT5E or CAT 6 cable.

[#4]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

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My advice is that you are much better off installing a CAT5E or CAT 6 cable.

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Thanks...

I have CAT5 available around the entire house, along side the wifi, but the wifi is generally more flexible. When I installed the CAT5, I never bothered with it beyond the house, but I do have power going out to absolutely everywhere.   

[#5]

Can you run an Ethernet cable and then install a new WiFi access point?

Brian

[#6]

I could, but it would not be worth the effort for the small amount of use it would receive. A powerline adaptor sounds a reasonable solution.

[#7]

I have no experience of powerline adapters but from posts elsewhere they can be prone to dropouts. They should also be on the same power circuit as circuit breakers can disrupt (or block?) the signal.

If they work, they work!!!

Brian

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Full quote of preceding post removed as per Forum rules.

[#8]

I run power line adapters between the router in the kitchen and a small switch in the lounge which then feeds devices connected to the TV. Its not far, on the same mains circuit, and I can stream without any issues. No drop outs, and none of my close neighbours use them.

That said, you will probably have to give it a go and see how things work for you. BT used to give them out with their YouView package, and there are often lots available cheaply on eBay, so its worth looking there and picking up some cheap to see if they work for you.

[#9]

But they don't always work well - and never at the quoted speeds!

[#10]

I have a pair, they're easy enough to use but they apparently emit more RF radiation than wifi.. and when you think about all the wiring in your house acting as one super sized antenna...

If it were me i'd just use a cantenna to reach the back of your garden wifi-wise. You can make them from a pringles can or buy a commercial one.

[#11]

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@7up wrote:

...they apparently emit more RF radiation than wifi.. and when you think about all the wiring in your house acting as one super sized antenna..

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I keep reading this but am currently unconvinced. My suspicion is that the results of EMI tests have been misunderstood. A WiFi signal consists of radiated emissions. Powerline devices work by transmitting conducted emissions over the house wiring. Some of that will admittedly be radiated from the cable but I find it hard to believe that levels are as high as alleged. 

If some bright spark tried comparing the WiFi radiated emissions with Powerline conducted levels then this could well give rise to scare stories, but such a comparison is total nonsense.

Can anybody point to any real tests comparing WiFi and Powerline Radiated emissions?

[#12]

I would think that a long piece of house wiring would make a very decent aerial when fed by a high frequency radio signal.

[#13]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

.... A WiFi signal consists of radiated emissions. Powerline devices work by transmitting conducted emissions over the house wiring.

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Apart from intent, what is the difference between intentional radiation (eg WiFi signal) and unintentional radiation (eg EMI)?

[#14]

@VileReynard

But where are the facts?

My argument, assuming that Powerline works by injecting RF current into say the line and neutral circuit, is that the two cores being physically close together in the mains cable sheath (complete with an earth wire) would, to a degree dictated by the coupling efficiency, cancel any RF field measured a small distance away from the cable. Not as well as if they were twisted as in an Ethernet cable but they are still closely coupled and therefore the emissions should be quite small. We are not talking about a single core cable being fed with an RF voltage, which I agree would radiate loads of RF, I see it as a close coupled loop being fed with an RF current.

We don't worry about unscreened Ethernet cables emitting RFI. I agree that twisting the cores helps but the same argument still applies.

@PeeGee

No difference, what we are arguing about is the amount of EMI emitted from Powerline carrying mains cable.

[#15]

I have just taken delivery of a pair of BT Essentials wi-fi powerline 500. Older technology, but I don't absolutely need anything faster - besides they were cheap 🙂

2x Lan ports on the slave, then wifi. 1 port on the master unit to connect to a router. I actually plugged it in to my slave router on the ground floor, which has a wired LAN up to my main router plugged in to the phone line on the top floor. Set up was like falling off a log, just plug in and go.

As a radio amateur, I have not yet checked how bad the HF radiation might be, but as I only bought these for occasional use I am not that concerned. I have not yet tried them over the distance I need - through two dis-boards, then out to the very back of the garden via an armoured cable, but I'm reasonably confident it will work.

QUESTION -  Can the slave and master be swapped over? The slave plugged into my LAN then (say) a laptop plugged into the master unit for access?